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watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #1 
Dear Lakeside Bible Church Member,
 
The reason I'm writing this email to you is because of the concerns I have after seeing a video on your church's website of the Student Ministries Winter Camp 2013 (this video has been recently deleted from the LBC website).   This video shows young church members at a supposed Christian camp slogging and lying in mud while some are passing bloodly animal parts between them and while blood is being poured on them.  What's going on here?  Why are Christian youth being debased in this fashion and why are they being treated worse than swine? 
 
I also wonder who the leaders of this church are that would treat young Christians like this and what is their true intent? 
 
Perhaps some of these questions can be answered if one understands John Macarthur, who has been exposed for hosting youth camps with very similar debasing "games."  One of Macarthur's camps called Camp Regen also involves young Christians involved in activities like slogging in mud and dancing around a pig's head on a garbage can alter.  Macarthur's Jr High camp has young Christians playing games with numerous dead animal heads.  Can this be any coincidence?  I know that Ken Ramey was well trained by John Macarthur and considers him to be his mentor. 
 
Though it's not the purpose of this email to expose Macarthur, I can tell you that there exists a wealth of evidence that Macarthur is a Freemason and a Druid.  Also, if you believe that Macarthur is a biblically sound bible expositor, nothing could be further from the truth; he now teaches that one can be redeemed AFTER taking the Mark of the beast.  It's my belief, by the way, that one purpose of these pagan games in these youth camps may be to condition young church members for an occult initiation and ultimately into taking the Mark of the Beast..
 
The following link is to a John Macarthur Cult Watch Forum topic that has the Student Camp 2013 video along with still pics. 
 
The following link is to a website where you can learn the truth about John Macarthur.   
 
I'm not a member of your church, but as a Christian I see it as my duty to shed some light on these youth camp activities.  Thanks for your indulgence.
 
Sincerely,
 
Bob Johnson
 
PS...In my opinion, we may not be far away from martial law in this country.  Does your pastor often talk about the need to be unified and to trust in God while he has his own security detail? 
 
LBC

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In response to Bob Johnson's email, Ken Ramey sent the Lakeside Bible Church membership the email below. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Beloved,

The Elders and I are aware that many of you received a disturbing email containing malicious and slanderous accusations about me and our church from a man named Bob Johnson.

Bob Johnson has been a John MacArthur antagonist for the past 10-15 years or so who achieved notoriety by handing out literature filled with deceptive misinformation outside Grace Community Church on Sunday mornings. Since then he has continued his attacks online against John and other members of the GCC pastoral staff. I've been aware of his “heresy-hunting, conspiracy theory” website for a number of years after he “exposed” GCC's Regen Summer Camp that we used to take our students to several years back. However, it wasn't until recently that the Elders and I were made aware that our church is now included in his “findings.” Obviously, the connections he is making between paganism and “gross” games, face paint, and hand signs at student camps are ludicrous and easily dismissed by anyone with biblical discernment. Nevertheless, for the sake of remaining above reproach in all we say and do as a church, after discussing the matter as Elders we agreed that it would be wise for us to avoid using dead animal parts in any future camp games, although who could pass up an old-fashioned, Texas-style pig scramble in the mud!

However, what is far more troubling to us is there is someone anonymously posting on the John MacArthur Cult Watch Forum who in his/her own words recently stumbled onto this blog and who claims to have attended our church at one time. They appear to know a lot of past and present details about me and our church, albeit distorted details, and are intent on maliciously spreading misinformation about us to anyone who will listen. According to our IT guys who just verified the security of our church's personal data, this local individual may have provided Bob Johnson with a physical copy of the LBC Directory and that is how he got your email.

Neither Johnson nor this anonymous individual have come to us personally and privately to address their concerns in a genuine effort to lovingly and biblically restore us (cf. Mt. 18:15-17; Gal. 6:1). The recent email and the ongoing internet posts are clearly intended to stir up strife and cause division within the body of Christ. Thankfully, the Bible makes it clear that these kinds of attacks are to be expected and it instructs us how to respond to them (cf. Mt. 5:11-12; 1 Tim. 5:19; 2 Tim. 2:23-26; Titus 3:9-11). I would encourage all of you to read 2 Timothy 3:1-17 since Paul's warning and encouragement to Timothy perfectly addresses the kinds of things we are presently dealing with at LBC.

If you still have any questions or concerns after reading the passages I've referenced, please speak directly to one of our Pastors or Elders. Also, please be praying that we will be filled with grace and truth as we seek to shepherd God's flock through this situation. We remain steadfast and confident that God is ultimately the One who is able to protect all of us against attacks from Satan and anyone else who he's taken captive to do his will which is to disrupt and divide Christ's church.

In the meantime, be comforted and encouraged by the following quote that God brought to my mind when I first read the false accusations against me and our church:

"Stick with your work. Do not flinch because the lion roars; do not stop to stone the devil’s dogs; do not fool away your time chasing the devil’s rabbits. Do your work. Let liars lie, let sectarians quarrel, let critics malign, let enemies accuse, let the devil do his worst; but see to it nothing hinders you from fulfilling with joy the work God has given you. He has not commanded you to be admired or esteemed. He has never bidden you to defend your character. He has not set you at work to contradict falsehood (about yourself) which Satan’s or God’s servants may start to peddle, or to track down every rumor that threatens your reputation. If you do these things, you will do nothing else; you will be at work for yourself and not for the Lord. Keep at your work. Let your aim be as steady as a star. You may be assaulted, wronged, insulted, slandered, wounded and rejected, misunderstood, or assigned impure motives; you may be abused by foes, forsaken by friends, and despised and rejected of men. But see to it with steadfast determination, with unfaltering zeal, that you pursue the great purpose of your life and object of your being until at last you can say, 'I have finished the work which Thou gavest me to do.’"

On Behalf of the Elders,

Ken Ramey
 
watchmanwakes

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A Response to Ken Ramey's Email


Beloved,

The Elders and I are aware that many of you received a disturbing email containing malicious and slanderous accusations about me and our church from a man named Bob Johnson. [This email can be read above.  It contains no lies.  It poses questions about LBC and its student camp games.]

Bob Johnson has been a John MacArthur antagonist for the past 10-15 years or so who achieved notoriety by handing out literature filled with deceptive misinformation outside Grace Community Church on Sunday mornings. [This statement is deceptive misinformation.] 

Since then he has continued his attacks online against John and other members of the GCC pastoral staff. I've been aware of his “heresy-hunting, conspiracy theory” website for a number of years after he “exposed” GCC's Regen Summer Camp that we used to take our students to several years back. [John Macarthur's "Camp Regen" was exposed by Watch Unto Prayer ministry for being the Druid Festival of Lughnasadh.  One can read the report here: John Macarthur's Druid Festival.]

However, it wasn't until recently that the Elders and I were made aware that our church is now included in his “findings.” [LBC was "found" because Christians from LBC made their concerns known on this forum.] 

Obviously, the connections he is making between paganism and “gross” games, face paint, and hand signs at student camps are ludicrous and easily dismissed by anyone with biblical discernment. [The connections between paganism and the LBC student camp "games" are not ludicrous and can't be dismissed.  I have seen the following in the LBC student camp videos: Students flashing satanic hand signals (which is the opening frame of one video), face painting, students dancing around a dead animal part which is lying atop a garbage can altar, students lying in mud while playing games with bloody animal parts, students running away from adults who are pouring blood on them...I believe these activities are invoking pagan gods and I believe they are conditioning the LBC youth for an occult initiation.]

Nevertheless, for the sake of remaining above reproach in all we say and do as a church, after discussing the matter as Elders we agreed that it would be wise for us to avoid using dead animal parts in any future camp games, although who could pass up an old-fashioned, Texas-style pig scramble in the mud! [There were no live pigs in the LBC camp videos referred to.]

However, what is far more troubling to us is there is someone anonymously posting on the John MacArthur Cult Watch Forum who in his/her own words recently stumbled onto this blog and who claims to have attended our church at one time. They appear to know a lot of past and present details about me and our church, albeit distorted details, and are intent on maliciously spreading misinformation about us to anyone who will listen. [Looks like not all Christians at LBC approve of Ken Ramey or these pagan camp games.  This fact is "far more troubling" to Ken Ramey than LBC students participating in pagan activities.] 

According to our IT guys who just verified the security of our church's personal data, this local individual may have provided Bob Johnson with a physical copy of the LBC Directory and that is how he got your email.

Neither Johnson nor this anonymous individual have come to us personally and privately to address their concerns in a genuine effort to lovingly and biblically restore us (cf. Mt. 18:15-17; Gal. 6:1). [Matt 18 does not apply to a case where paganism within a church is being exposed.  Matt 18 instructs Christians in how to deal with a personal trespass.  No one at LBC has committed a personal trespass against me.  Matt 18:15 begins: Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault...If a Christian was to voice their concerns about these pagan games to the LBC leadership would they be listened to? Would it do any good?]  

The recent email and the ongoing internet posts are clearly intended to stir up strife and cause division within the body of Christ. [Exposing paganism within LBC ministries will cause a division between the leadership who wants its dangers hidden or downplayed  and the few Christians now made aware and who realize the danger to the LBC youth in participating in these games.] 

Thankfully, the Bible makes it clear that these kinds of attacks are to be expected and it instructs us how to respond to them (cf. Mt. 5:11-12; 1 Tim. 5:19; 2 Tim. 2:23-26; Titus 3:9-11). I would encourage all of you to read 2 Timothy 3:1-17 since Paul's warning and encouragement to Timothy perfectly addresses the kinds of things we are presently dealing with at LBC. [ 2Timothy 3 is Paul's prophetic warning to the church: Perilous times shall come...men will have a form of godliness...evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived...men of corrupt minds...but they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest to all men.]

If you still have any questions or concerns after reading the passages I've referenced, please speak directly to one of our Pastors or Elders. Also, please be praying that we will be filled with grace and truth as we seek to shepherd God's flock through this situation. We remain steadfast and confident that God is ultimately the One who is able to protect all of us against attacks from Satan and anyone else who he's taken captive to do his will which is to disrupt and divide Christ's church. [Beware of Christian leaders who zealously call for church unity at the expense of truth and who admonish and discipline those who dare proclaim unpopular truths.  Most churches today are not unified in Spirit and in Truth.  They are unified in a facilitated unity and in a consensus truth.  Is Ken Ramey now pushing his congregation to participate in facilitator-led small groups?  This is where the primary brainwashing and mind controlling will take place.  This is where the group participant's paradigm will be changed from a fear and obedience to God way to a fear and obedience to man way.  Most churches today are not built on God's word but on human relationships.  Because truth often breaks up relationships and group harmony, those who proclaim unpopular truths will be deemed "divisive" by church leaders and will be forced to either relinquish their position in favor of group harmony (group consensus) or be forced to leave the church.]

In the meantime, be comforted and encouraged by the following quote that God brought to my mind when I first read the false accusations against me and our church:

"Stick with your work. Do not flinch because the lion roars; do not stop to stone the devil’s dogs; do not fool away your time chasing the devil’s rabbits. Do your work. Let liars lie, let sectarians quarrel, let critics malign, let enemies accuse, let the devil do his worst; but see to it nothing hinders you from fulfilling with joy the work God has given you. He has not commanded you to be admired or esteemed. He has never bidden you to defend your character. He has not set you at work to contradict falsehood (about yourself) which Satan’s or God’s servants may start to peddle, or to track down every rumor that threatens your reputation. If you do these things, you will do nothing else; you will be at work for yourself and not for the Lord. Keep at your work. Let your aim be as steady as a star. You may be assaulted, wronged, insulted, slandered, wounded and rejected, misunderstood, or assigned impure motives; you may be abused by foes, forsaken by friends, and despised and rejected of men. But see to it with steadfast determination, with unfaltering zeal, that you pursue the great purpose of your life and object of your being until at last you can say, 'I have finished the work which Thou gavest me to do.’" [When you can't refute the charges, come up with a quote that says you don't have to.]

On Behalf of the Elders,

Ken Ramey

 
 
Lonestar

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Reply with quote  #4 
Watchman,

Yep you got Ramey really mad- and he is defending himself- that is when you know you nailed him.

I have been to a rodeo- took our son this year. I have seen a pig scramble - that is not a pig scramble -they do not use dead animals.

I did watch part of the Wicker Man and the rituals there are a perfect fit.

They site a fault on you for not following Matt 18- does anyone really think that approach would work either?
They are mad because you got to someone in the church but they did that to themselves .
 
So what about the dead animals?
What about debasing children?

The response of Ramey- "not a good idea to use animal parts...."- not unless you are some sort of deceiver
with no interest in the kids welfare.
 
I see a very mad and immature person writing this.  His use of 2 Tim 3 is pointed in the wrong direction... I think Ramey and his church are fulfilling the prophesy of Paul on the perilous times.
 
 
 
 
 


 

 
 
 
 
 
couragehonor

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Ken before you go accusing me of passing on a church directory you might want to confirm this as a fact first! It's a huge assumption on your part. Second you have no idea how long we attended lbc or who we are. You have no idea all the stuff I do know that I could be posting about the secrets kept within this church and from its congregation. I can count right now several members who are ready to make a mass exodus from LBC because of your authoritarian type gustapo rule!!! This was I believe to inform parents that obviously you and your leadership lack discernment and common sense. Your not naive so I know these games are on purpose and serve a purpose at lbc and it's not good.
bjw

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Ironic he calls the author of this site a conspiracy theorist, when they are the biggest conspiracy theorists on the planet.  They use this pejorative term whenever anyone points out the truth.  Much of the info watchmanwakes has put on this site is documented with proof, yet they refuse to address it.  They always come back with open ended accusations.  If you dare speak out you are labled non-lordship salvation and a tool of Satan, psychology, big pharma, charismatics, catholics, or whoever the current scapegoat happens to be.  Yet, their cult leader spent millions on a museum to himself and celebrates druid festivals.  
 
It is conspiracy fact, not theory, when a cult does not have the decency to buy it's own buildings, unlike most cults, and decides to commandeer existing churches.  Couragehonor and brokenbutstanding's stories do not even take place in the same country, yet the same thing happened to both churches.  I'm sure many more will come forward in the future.  Whether it is a church takeover, fraudulent counseling, or deceptive college recruitments it leads to the same conclusion: this is a cult and a scam, hardly a conspiracy theory.

couragehonor

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I'm very troubled by ken rameys response. His statement " our IT guys verified the security of our church's personal data " what does this mean? I'm very confused! What are they trying to verify ? You can't verify anything . Member directories are given out like candy at the front office by Marilyn. Members give them to each other I know I have got one from Zuma , Michelle , jeanie, barb and so forth over the years. Does this mean ken is hacking church member emails to find out who's speaking negatively about the church ?
watchmanwakes

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I think what Ramey is saying is that the church's IT guys checked and verified that nothing had been hacked and that all was well and therefore, the congregation's emails must have been obtained by the church directory...which as you point out has been handed out freely to anyone who attends the church.  
bjw

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Couragehonor,
This type of thing is something they do to plant seeds of doubt in people's minds about the type of person you are. They want people to doubt your story, so they insinuate you are the type of person who hacks computers. They don't make a direct accusation, but they are hoping their members, especially ones who may be sitting on the fence, will think this. They know there is no way to refute what you are saying.
couragehonor

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bjw, I agree with you on that. They also are more concerned with the fact that I exposed them and can't stand it that they can't figure out who I am. I can assure them who they are thinking is not who it is. I have a wealth of more information that dates way back. I have been around for several years to the beginnings of LBC. In due time all will be brought to light. Right now my concern is the pagan games and dead animals. Ken and this leadership have still yet to come up with a biblical satisfactory explanation for debasing our children. We probably won't get one because there is nothing that can explain it away!
watchmanwakes

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This is the muddy and bloody camp game video that Lakeside Bible Church has deleted.  I don't see any Texas-style pig scramble, nor do I see one live pig in this video.

BIGJAKE

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Couragehonor what info do you have? As a member of this church who is concerned over these issues I'm very interested. If you have info on horrible secrets in the church why not let it out? People attending the fellowship should know don't you think?
couragehonor

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BIGJAKE I have not seen you comment on the very disturbing videos and photos of children playing with dead animals. In fact a majority of members at this church have yet to address it or ask why it was even going on in the first place. This concerns me greatly as many members there who have seen it either remain silent or come to the pastors defense. Ken himself rather than explain it defends, justifies and dismisses these things as if it's no big deal. Rather than ask me to divulge the secrets of this church why not first either openly or privately ask your pastors / elders for an explanation? If you can get a response biblically where this is appropriate under any circumstance then please post here. All I have seen In Kens letter is just a bunch of Christian garb with no substance. Outsiders have seen these photos and have been shocked and have asked us if this church worships satan!!! That alone is a pretty poor testimony on the leadership. By the way this has been going on for years so it's no shock to ken or this leadership because this is what go's on at John MacArthurs TMS and the camps. Ken has participated in these activities there at GCC as I have found videos. Members need to be concerned when their pastor glosses over these things and acts as if it's a suprise or news to him that it was going on, he knows!!!!! You also need to ask him why are they so concerned with who EXPOSED LBC's own videos of this pagan crap and ask why they brought these activities to the church videotaped and posted them on its own website in the first place?????? Am I missing something here? BIGJAKE also what is your response to ken splitting walden community church ? Why would he refer to them as divisive , bitter angry, people who most were not Christian according to him who can keep their stained glass windows and pues???? I find his,statements ugly and it's obvious he has been harboring bitterness and offenses against them because he couldn't change it from congregational rule to elder rule and take their building. I find it upsetting that he immediately calls the former pastor there divisive rather than go to his senior saint (pastor ) and discuss the matter. Instead ken finds it appropriate to address his grievences about a church he split 16 years later to his pastor buddies and in certain points of his sermon they are laughing at the expense of members. Who by the way it has been clear got wounded over the broken relationships as a result of this split. I find this troubling as it was not necessary for him to discuss it and I have no doubt that he has never told this sermon to his own members or else he would of had lots of explaining to do! No, ken was arrogant and now he's shocked and upset that what he attempted to wipe off the Internet which was posted for a long time by the way has been found and reposted. The sermon is forever up here. His sermon , his words, his arrogance not mine or walden churches doing . He felt very safe and comfortable because he believed he was right and I have no doubt he got his Q's from John Macarthur. If ken believes in Romans 8:28-29 and that nothing happens unless God has orchastrated it then this,exposure should be a wake up call to ken and will end up being a blessing. As far as taking any grievences to this leadership , good luck!!!!! They are more like do what we say not what we do and if you raise any concerns that go's against their authority , look out you are about to get WHACKED!!!! Remember ken says church discipline should be going on all the time in this church and they do walk around with a stick looking to put out fires and keep its members in line. Why all of a,sudden for the amping up of grow group's??? There's a red list and black list! Those who go and those who don't what??????? What business is it of their's and why is anyone on a list in the first place? Well because you can't control your church of 400 as a hole but break LBC up in twenty to twenty five small group's and boom you can get people who are there for fellowship while your leaders gather information through what you say how you respond to Kens sermons and the intimate details of your life being made known through prayer requests. Anyone who go's against the grain or shows any signs of independent thinking outside of what the leadership believes and you are then assigned someone who all of a sudden becomes a prayer partner , a discipleship relationship forms without you realizing it. You are also subtly talked into counseling for things that you normally would say sure it couldn't hurt to get some help with marriage , kids, and family growth but before you know it you are given HOMEWORK which result in scripture ( good) but then you are inundated with questions which are followed up with more questions to get into details you innocently reveal about yourself and through this they are able to gain more control and get you to believe your in sin. Ken is always talking about how we need to be always confessing our sins to them and each other!!!!!! I say what????? No you confess them to your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ who is the mediator between us and our heavenly Father who is in heaven. The purpose obviously is for you to give up more personal stuff about yourself and your family then the leadership will often share details of your personal information with many, that constutes gossip and a violation of trust. Don't think for one second that anything you say is kept between you and your counselor I assure you it is not!!! Read your covenant contract, the Bylaws, and what you are signing by signing the counseling paperwork. It is all drawn up by an attorney to protect LBC not it's members. Believe me ken and the elders are protected legally against any grievences you have unless you know your rights. We learned the hard way but we learned fast. I am asking you to read everything closely , question , and ask the Lord for direction and to be gracious bur also stand your ground when it's necessary. BIGJAKE you need to be concerned with these things first but I assure you all will be brought to light in God's time not mine and now is not the time. My prayer is that this leadership will cease trying to find out who is outing them and quit trying to crack this account and others, yes someone in Montgomery is attempting to hack my screen name right now. That is illegal and go's to show that people in this church will break the law if it is someone from the church in order to attack anyone who exposes them. So BIGJAKE talk to your leadership and ask questions!
BIGJAKE

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Reply with quote  #14 
Couragehonor you need help. That was a bunch of rambling. Sounds like you have a personal axe to grind. I am concerned about the videos. It's what's disturbing. As for the rest it sounds like crazyness. I've listened to that sermon. Nothing bad in it. Just a man giving testimony of his past experiences. If you have info of gross going on's at the church (besides the animal stuff) then post it up. Otherwise looks like you are doing nothing more than slandering. If you have info on horrible stuff and don't post it for others to see then you are just as much at fault.
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Ok. I will try this again. I'm being told I don't care. I'm being told I need to confront the leadership. Reread what I have posted here please. I said I was concerned. You don't know the steps I have taken. I'm not siding with LBC. I've shared my concern over the animal videos. I again ask what other information do you people have concerning bad happenings at LBC. Couragehonor makes claims of hiding adultery, molestation, and other stuff. Well where's that info??? Pretty sad if claims are made and you refuse to share the information so others like me can take precautions. You would be just as much to blame. You would be causing it to be covered up even more. Wouldn't you?? But instead I have been attacked here and told I need to be concerned and I need to man up to confront these people. I am concerned. That's why I'm asking these questions. If you refuse to give the info and tell me I need to be concerned then I see nothing more than belly aching here except for the gross animal part videos.
bjw

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Reply with quote  #16 
Most insiders who leave this denomination (yes, it is a denomination ) are very paranoid at first about who they can trust because if you have been on the inside you know the kinds of things they do in retaliation. A quick read of the other threads on here and the testimonies on watchmanwakes main page will show what I mean. To this day I have friends who left at the same time I did but will still not have anything to do with me or speak out, they have families now and just want to move on with their lives. I would not be too hard on couragehonor because after leaving this cult it is very hard learning who you can trust, especially when telling others your experiences. Couragehonor is still in the healing process . I myself have tried helping others as part of my healing process, as this cult destroyed my life. I am sure more on this forum will be willing to open up when they see you can be trusted with the information, and where your stance is concerning this cult, which is known for using unethical tactics to take over churches, falsely recruit college students, and give faulty counseling. In my own life I was ruined financially, lost all my friends, was framed for crimes, and harassed for years, and I know I'm not the only one and they use the same tactics at churches around the world. LBC is definitely not the first and unfortunately won't be the last.
watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #17 
BIGJAKE,

Since you oppose these LBC student camp games with the animal parts, I'd like to make a point.  John Macarthur's Camp Regen, which is his high school camp, as well as his Jr High camp are playing the exact same games with these kids holding ropes between them as they play some kind of tug of war game as they go around an animal part or animal head that's lying atop a garbage can (at Camp Regen, a pig's head is atop the garbage can).  We know this can be no coincidence that LBC and Camp Regen have the same games given that Ken Ramey has been trained by Macarthur, given the aberrant nature of these games, and given that LBC has participated at Camp Regen.   

But where do these pagan games really come from?  Macarthur's Camp Regen has been exposed as the Druid Festival of Lughnasadh.  And these games have been exposed as the funeral games of the pagan god, Lugh (who is perhaps Lucifer). 

As stated in the email to the LBC congregation, there is ample evidence Macarthur is a Druid and a Freemason.  So we can reasonably conclude that Ken Ramey and the LBC elders are not following Jesus Christ with these student camps, but John Macarthur, who is being directed by the occult world. 

It's also believed that these games are invoking pagan gods and conditioning these youth for an occult initiation.  And I think this is a credible concern given that, against God's word and all traditional Christian theology, John Macarthur and his agents are now teaching that it's OK to take the mark of the Beast because, according to them, one can still be redeemed later on.  

In his defense of these pagan camp games Ramey stated, "Obviously, the connections he is making between paganism and 'gross' games, face paint, and hand signs at student camps are ludicrous and easily dismissed by anyone with biblical discernment." 

This statement of Ramey's is "ludicrous and easily dismissed" and is also a bold lie.  I'm no expert in the occult, but I have learned that hand signals like the ones I've seen at these LBC camps and face painting both invoke pagan gods or demons.  So how does Ramey so easily dismiss the connection between these activities and paganism when these activities are pagan and invoke pagan gods? 

muddybloody

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Reply with quote  #18 
BIG JAKES COMMENT 
Couragehonor you need help. That was a bunch of rambling. Sounds like you have a personal axe to grind. I am concerned about the videos. It's what's disturbing. As for the rest it sounds like crazyness. I've listened to that sermon. Nothing bad in it. Just a man giving testimony of his past experiences. If you have info of gross going on's at the church (besides the animal stuff) then post it up. Otherwise looks like you are doing nothing more than slandering. If you have info on horrible stuff and don't post it for others to see then you are just as much at fault.



   Okay, first after reading this and putting in red some things that I find very troubling here. BIG JAKE makes some pretty angry statements before couragehonor can even respond. Prior to this post he makes a point and no where in courage honors statements did I see anything remotely angry, an axe to grind, or anything other than serious issues being raised that couragehonor has asked for A genuine response from bigjake. The games playing with dead animals is CRAZY BIG JAKE!!!!!! this seems like someone who has exposed some of the going ons at LBC and the tactics which are used to silence members. 

  BIG JAKE I to listened to that sermon and you are a LIAR! This was not a man giving his testimony of past experiences and YOU KNOW IT!!!  If you even listened to it.  The moderator here i'm certain listened if this is his site and from what I can see he wouldn't post or allow posts that were not true. 

  My take on you is that you sound like your interested in the truth yet you have not given a true statement on how you feel about christian children being part of such a pagan activity and more important puts them at RISK HEALTHWISE! Instead you just dismissed it just as ken did.  What is it that you confronted the leadership on? If they are not handling you right then I don't see why you expect for couragehonor to share things here and blame him for not telling if you are not willing to do the same?  It seems like you want all the information yet you fail to act or make a statement on the current issues that are being addressed in these posts.  I'm sorry my friend but pagan games at a church that involve dead animals is COMPLETELY OUT OF LINE AND UNBIBLICAL! your complacency astounds me right now!  I think readers here want to know how this would offend your or if it doesn't.  Apparently it doesn't or else you would not of so flippantly blew it off like you just did. 

  Based on your posts BIG JAKE I have no idea whether you are truly here to see whats going on in your church or are you here to find out who is exposing LBC and get the information that apparently couragehonor has and seems to want to expose? I doubt attacking and accusing couragehonor will get you anywhere and by the way it looks like you have the axe to grind not couragehonor with your posts attacking him. You seem to of taken offense because you are not getting information you want. You have plenty from what I see that raises serious questions in regards to how children are put in unsafe conditions.  If you are really concerned you would start there first and take seriously LBC'S own videos and photos. 

   If someone mentioned CHILD SEX ABUSE OR any other abuses being hidden and showed videos of what i'm seeing I wouldn't need that person to tell me anymore at that point. My butt would be up at your church confronting YOUR PASTOR , ELDERS, AND DEACONS asking if there is any truth to the statements!  Rather than do that you expect someone to expose themselves to ridicule and who knows what else. If your leadership has tells you it's all lies then you decide for yourself what you will do for your family, not couragehonor. Be grateful that someone had the courage to even put it out there. 

  I'm looking at this from an objective sensible point of view and I can see your concern but you are not even concerned with the health violations and kids throwing around dead animal parts.  What a terrible testimony and this church had better hope PETA doesn't get wind of it. Those people will go nuts!!! 

  BIG JAKE as far as I see it looks like you are part of the LBC tribe but i'm hoping i'm wrong about you. Rather than attack couragehonor or anyone on this post why don't you ask your leadership or ask couragehonor if your children are at risk right now. Based on the poor leadership of this church, the bad decisions in the unsafe handling of dead animals I would say NO! That alone does not qualify them to make sound decsions on the safety and spiritual well being of children in their care. 


  My suggestion to you is ask your leadership since you are still a member there discuss with them the adultry, child sex abuse cover up, and so forth. If can't do that then why are you here? 

bjw

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Reply with quote  #19 
I do not know about couragehonor's situation, but if the posters here are concerned about the welfare of children I have every reason to believe the concern is genuine.  If you go back to the thread on child abuse and how they teach their members to raise children it is horrifying.  Also, the counseling methods require 2 or 3 witnesses for an accusation against a person to be valid, and an authority figure must be obeyed no matter what.  You are not permitted to use outside justice or outside counselors or psychologists.  So, you are at the cult's mercy.  The poster "grace to who" and I both experienced "breaking sessions" where you are sat down and screamed at by two people for nearly an hour until you come up with sins to confess. (Grace to who and I never met and had several disagreements for those following the cult ed forum back then, we were not friends or acquaintances)

My point is this cult is very abusive and cares nothing about the safety of children.  In fact, it is not a good environment to raise children in with the Nanc policies, missions projects, and now these unsanitary, unsafe, and satanic games.  Please take every potential threat against children seriously.

watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGJAKE
Ok. I will try this again. I'm being told I don't care. I'm being told I need to confront the leadership. Reread what I have posted here please. I said I was concerned. You don't know the steps I have taken. I'm not siding with LBC. I've shared my concern over the animal videos. I again ask what other information do you people have concerning bad happenings at LBC. Couragehonor makes claims of hiding adultery, molestation, and other stuff. Well where's that info??? Pretty sad if claims are made and you refuse to share the information so others like me can take precautions. You would be just as much to blame. You would be causing it to be covered up even more. Wouldn't you?? But instead I have been attacked here and told I need to be concerned and I need to man up to confront these people. I am concerned. That's why I'm asking these questions. If you refuse to give the info and tell me I need to be concerned then I see nothing more than belly aching here except for the gross animal part videos.


I don't like it that BigJake has been attacked on this forum or that he is being pressured to confront the LBC leadership.  BigJake has said that he is an LBC member.  He's been upfront.  He has been attacked for lacking concern about these camp games, and yet he has made it very clear that he is concerned about the games with the animals.  He has also said that he is impartial and that he has taken steps regarding his concerns...steps which are only his business.

As BigJake says, Couragehonor has made many claims on this forum regarding LBC.  He/she has talked about adultery, molestation, ticking time bombs within LBC, and other things.  BigJake has been practically pleading with Couragehonor to substantiate these claims, yet details have not been given.  As Jake asks, "Well where's that info???"  Where are the facts to back these claims?  And, for whatever reason, info and facts and answers have not been forthcoming from either Couragehonor or Muddybloody.

An email was recently sent to the entire LBC congregation.  We have the attention of not only BigJake, but many others at LBC.  If Couragehonor is not willing now to inform the church regarding these serious claims, then I believe he/she should withold comment rather than further alienate BigJake and the rest of the LBC congregation. 

Lastly, I suspect that the same person here may be using different user names and that's not permitted.     

bjw

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Reply with quote  #21 
To add to what watchmanwakes had to say, I want you to know it was not my intention to attack either party. My sole mission in exposing this cult is to use my experience to help others not get hurt the same way I was, by simply telling the truth. Realistically, I know someone on my budget could never put a dent in the armor of a billion dollar cult like this, but I can let people know the truth before they get in so they can be "informed consumers." Also, it is good to give advice to people already in so they know all the facts. In regards to Jake and Couragehonor, I feel bad for what is happening in Texas, as the same thing is occuring in Italy (brokenbutstanding ) and states all over the US. I hope the problems happening in these places are solved, and we need to keep these people in our prayers. I think posting your experiences on a forum like this is a good way to prevent it happening to others.
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Reply with quote  #22 
Ok first let me say that big jake I have no idea who you are are and vise versa. At this point the moderators are right I need to keep this to the topic at hand. I will no longer post outside the scope of this topic.  If you feel that you can't or shouldn't go to the leadership then who am I to judge you for that? I may have been hasty in attacking you but I felt attacked as well and although it doesn't make it right I apologize for not being more clear on my claims and for attacking if you were truly seeking answers to a serious issue. I can't change my initial response but I can apologize sincerely and delete my posts so we don't need to be reminded of what was said. Also this place is to warn others about a serious issue infiltrating churches and I don't take it lightly. From here on out if I post it will be strictly on the topic at hand. Muddy bloody posted that response for me in defense of me. I will try to delete some of my posts to keep this to the topics at hand and to keep peace. Thank you
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Reply with quote  #23 
No offense here. No need to delete posts. Just looking for info on here to make decisions.
watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjw
I do not know about couragehonor's situation, but if the posters here are concerned about the welfare of children I have every reason to believe the concern is genuine.  If you go back to the thread on child abuse and how they teach their members to raise children it is horrifying...this cult is very abusive and cares nothing about the safety of children.  In fact, it is not a good environment to raise children in with the Nanc policies, missions projects, and now these unsanitary, unsafe, and satanic games.  Please take every potential threat against children seriously.


When BJW mentions the thread here on child abuse in the cult he is referring to the Ezzo baby rearing method which, according to many, has caused physical and emotional damage even lasting through adulthood.  The reason the Gary Ezzo childrearing method is mentioned on this forum is because Gary Ezzo developed his method while under the auspices of John Macarthur's Grace Community Church where he was a pastor.  Without Macarthur's influence, it's unlikely that the harmful Ezzo method would have been tried on a million children.   
watchmanwakes

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjw
My sole mission in exposing this cult is to use my experience to help others not get hurt the same way I was, by simply telling the truth. Realistically, I know someone on my budget could never put a dent in the armor of a billion dollar cult like this, but I can let people know the truth before they get in so they can be "informed consumers."


It's true that we are weak and poor and in our own steam can do nothing.  But our Father in Heaven can do all things and it's my firm belief that He will continue to expose John Macarthur and his worldwide network.  Let's keep praying.    
couragehonor

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Reply with quote  #26 
Yes, he is right the baby ezzo is abusive in its methods and I know for a fact it is used by several people at lbc. I haven't seen it pushed by the pastor I have seen moms impliment the ezzo methods , recommend the books , and share how great it is on their kids to knew mothers. I will withhold personal comment except to say I have seen this over the years at lbc.
watchmanwakes

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I would strongly warn all parents as to the dangers of the Gary Ezzo baby-rearing method.  Here's a few excerpts from the other forum topic:

Few know that John Macarthur has played a large role in affecting (and many would say adversely affecting) the development of more than a million children in nearly 100 nations around the world.  How is this possible? 

From about the mid-1980's to the mid-1990's Gary Ezzo, under the blessing and auspices of Grace Community Church, developed and first taught his controversial baby parenting program that is today Growing Families International (GFI)...

"Many who are familiar with the popularity and controversy associated with GFI have wondered how the Ezzos’ parenting ministry could have grown so rapidly. In just over 10 years, GFI has expanded into 93 countries, reaching more than a million followers. Seventy thousand parents attend GFI classes at local churches every week (12). The Journal noted that this growth was possible partly through the Ezzos’ connections with John MacArthur’s Grace Community Church, where Gary Ezzo was once Pastor of Family Ministry, and with its radio and tape ministry, Grace to You (GTY). This was not, as GFI protests, a “charge” against the Ezzos in any way, but simply a much-needed explanation for GFI’s exponential and worldwide growth."

Some parents who used the Ezzo method have grown children that now suffer from personality disorders. Such children are unable to form healthy attachments and are basically dysfunctional all their lives. These parents called Ezzo a psychopath.  The comments below are from Dangers of Ezzo/Babywise:

"We read the Ezzo books and listened to the tapes when both of our daughters were born. They are now 14 and 18 and both have attachment disorder, panic disorder, anxiety disorder, and one also has severe depression. This does not run in our family. I am 100% sure that it was caused by following the Ezzo 20-minute rule that says it’s okay to let your baby cry for 20 minutes or longer to teach them not to manipulate the caregivers. This is a sure way to cause an attachment disorder and make sure your baby has extreme anxiety and fears of abandonment when they get older.

"Gary Ezzo is a psychopath who lives to infect others with his own attachment disorder. He lives in a home on the ocean, laughing at all the duped God-loving people who followed his evil parenting methods. Meanwhile, our lives are destroyed to watch our precious daughters try to cope with not being able to attach to people.

"Someone needs to start a class action lawsuit against this evil man and stop him from doing any more harm to babies. His evil, destructive books are still in the hands of naive, gullible parents who desperately want to raise their kids “God’s way”. Unfortunately, this “godly man” is nothing more than a devil disguised as an angel of light."

Jason on June 2, 2013 at 7:43 pm

My 18-year-old daughter has attachment disorder and panic disorder from using the Ezzo parenting methods. The most extremely damaging process was the 20-minute rule. You were supposed to wait 20 minutes to see if your baby would stop crying on its own before you went to check on it,

I can’t believe how brainwashed I was by authoritarian religion back then to have followed this program. Ezzo is obviously a psychopath who has no empathy or conscience. His training methods are sure to turn out attachment-disordered people just like himself.

My life is a nightmare because of Gary Ezzo. And he lives in a house on the ocean in serenity, far away from the mass-anguish of parents and family members that he has inflicted on countless souls.
-----------------

Many professionals have stated that the Ezzo baby rearing method causes emotional, behavioral, and even physical harm to the child.  According to How Ezzo's Child-Rearing Philosophy Impacts Psychosocial and Physical Development:

"If there are indeed a million children being raised with the Ezzo rigidity, then therapists, pastors and physicians should be ready to deal with the myriad of psychological issues that will be presenting over the next century. They will see everything from anti-social behavior to a person who cannot trust God because they never came to trust their parents."

Despite later kicking Ezzo out of their church, I believe John Macarthur and the Grace Community Church elder board were fully aware of and approved the unscriptural teachings of the Ezzos during the many years they taught parenting courses. Yet they supported the program financially and doctrinally so Ezzo could launch Growing Families International globally.

An observation from an email I once received regarding Ezzo's parenting program at Grace Church:


"Teaching parents to abuse their own children in the name of Christ... what a brilliant way to create total mind control slaves for Lucifer's slave empire."




watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #28 
Why all of a sudden for the amping up of grow group's??? There's a red list and black list! Those who go and those who don't what??????? What business is it of their's and why is anyone on a list in the first place? Well because you can't control your church of 400 as a whole but break LBC up in twenty to twenty five small group's and boom...

Couragehonor has asked a great question: Why the amping up of Grow Groups?  And Couragehonor has given the correct answer: to control the congregation.

Grow Groups are not a traditional bible study group.  Their true purpose, in a nutshell, is to mind control their participants.  I have spent quite a bit of time researching facilitator-led groups and I can assure all Christians that they are extremely dangerous.  Unfortunately, few Christians understand why they are being ushered into these groups and few Christians understand their dangers.    
bjw

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Reply with quote  #29 
I think the group idea is the first red flag that went off for me in my first week.  It just seemed so un-Christian the way groups would compete against each other, gossip, and even splinter into more groups.  This was the first time I saw churches being split into groups.

As for the Ezzo issue, I think the biggest danger with that is the idea that children are born evil and need to have their wills broken into submission.  That blanket method where you place a child on a blanket, set a timer, spank them everytime they leave the blanket, then reset the timer seems like cruelty and would probably turn a child against their parents.  That and the crying rule are just insane.

What worries me when it comes to children in these churches is the rule where you cannot question an authority figure without two or three witnesses.  If an act was committed against a child and nobody witnessed it would anyone believe the child?  What if it is an elder or other authority figure?  If you can't involve outside authorities or counselors what happens?  These are some important things to consider.

couragehonor

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Reply with quote  #30 
I never understood the Ezzo until I read about it. I heard mothers especially deacon/elder wives recommend the books and pass them on to new yoing mothers (baby wise). I saw this implemented on the elder /deacons wives children and I did comment how well behaved their children are. However I did not agree with spanking their 2-3 year old children for several infractions throughout the day. The children were spanked in moderation and appropriate to age I didn't see any abuse at all in regards to beatings, belts, or overly excessive swats. However I did see that children were spanked for interrupting , not listening after the second time, disobedience plain and simple. A warning was given 2xs after that spanking occurred. For toddlers it is not uncommon for them to do these things several times throughout the day. They are learning and mistakes like interrupting is not something that I believe warrants a spanking for toddlers. They are curious and it is a normal occurrence for them to want attention and ask questions. They are curious at that age and anything parents do they want to be there. I'm not saying don't discipline but really spanking several times throughout the day? That's exhausting for mom and it molds the child into the well behaved kid but what about their spirit? The ability to make decisions as they get older? To think independent of mom and dad? Time schedules for baby to feed and not deviating from it is crazy!!! I never withheld bottles from my baby for any period of time. If she was hungry I fed her. In the toddler and nursery at LBC some parents had strict nap time and snacks. They bring grapes or a small thing of yogert, homemade small granola bar and that's it. No juice or milk just water for the kids. I'm for healthy eating but come on people really? Parents who were not doing babywise you could tell the difference immediately who were newcomers and parents who didn't use those methods. I saw parents not pick up their children or leave them in their crib to cry it out. Again the kids seem normal, obedient, and like the perfect kids. I have seen babies grow up in this church and although I do not know how baby wise affected them I do see some that seem to be affected as what was described in these posts. Baby wise is not good at the very least and I'm glad I never used it on my children.
watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #31 
Quote:
Originally Posted by couragehonor
Ken is always talking about how we need to be always confessing our sins to them and each other!!!!!! I say what????? No you confess them to your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ who is the mediator between us and our heavenly Father who is in heaven.


Ken Ramey has the LBC congregation confessing sins to the LBC leaders and to one another.  We have discussed this on this forum and church leaders justify this by perverting James 5:16 which translates in the King James bible "confess your faults one to another", but in the modern perversions (like the ESV) it reads, "confess your sins to one another."  So as Couragehonor stated, we are not to confess sins to one another because it is at the least an unbiblical practice.  So then why do church leaders like Ramey have their congregations confessing sins one to another?

Confessions are employed in mind control.  The communists employ confessions as does the Catholic Church.  To whom you confess is to whom you subordinate yourself.  The following was taken from A Facilitator-led Church Group is the Gate to Hell:  

"Because small group participants are required to confess their sins regularly to each other (which is unbiblical) and to be 'transparent' and 'authentic,' the church leaders will be aware of the most intimate details of your life; they will also know who are resisting the 'process' and who are threats to their control.  Confessing sins and revealing intimate secrets to your 'Life Group' can also potentially open the group participant to blackmail."

From "Thought Reform Criteria within Bible-Based Cultic Groups": Cult of Confession: 

"Sins, as defined by the group, are to be confessed either to a personal monitor or publicly to the group. There is no confidentiality; members' 'sins,' 'attitudes,' and 'faults' are discussed and exploited by the leaders. Even if not obviously promoted by the group, information is collected (usually automatically without set guidelines for collection) and fed to leadership. Shameful past events may then be exploited to manipulate individual compliance or as evidence for disciplinary actions. This information is also exploited by members who leave the group."

So Couragehonor's assessment of the Grow Groups and the confessionals are correct.  This unbiblical practice is used by church leaders to control their members by asserting their authority over them ("You must confess your sins to your leader", by finding out personal details of the member's lives, by seeing who is resisting the process or the agenda, and potentially, by providing information for future blackmail. 

Why would anyone confess sins to Ken Ramey or LBC members, when they can go directly to God?  
 

 
Lonestar

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Reply with quote  #32 

Why are Pastors Getting Security Details?


John Macarthur's Grace Community Church is staffed with a number of police and military men (See John Macarthur's police/miliary).  Macarthur also has his own security detail which I believe includes ex-LAPD officers (See John Macarthur's Armed Temple Guard).  There's an odd and disturbing trend going on now that many churches have police and men with military/intelligence backgrounds in leadership positions.  I've been told that in one American city, ex-military men have been taking over many of the old churches.  Clearly, there seems to be these days, not only a militarization of the police, but also a growing police/military influence over the churches.  

Does Ken Ramey have his own security detail?  Regarding pastors who are now acquiring their own security details, I wonder what they know that we do not.  Why do they see the need to have a security detail?  Can't God protect them?  And I wonder how many of these pastors are associated with FEMA.  In the article, Pastors to Help DHS in Arrests and Detention of Americans in FEMA Camps, the following is stated:

"The fact that FEMA has recruited up to an estimated 28,000 pastors, as a low end estimate, to as many as 100,000 pastors, as a high end estimate, in order to form the clergy response team is very disturbing, not to mention frightening."

Who's the Guy Wearing the US Army Shirt?
LBC-Camp-Army-5.png 




watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #33 
Quote:
Originally Posted by watchmanwakes
Obviously, the connections he is making between paganism and “gross” games, face paint, and hand signs at student camps are ludicrous and easily dismissed by anyone with biblical discernment.


According to Ken Ramey, to connect hand signs at his student camps with paganism is ludicrous.  What about connecting these hand signs to satanism and witchcraft?  Is that also ludicrous?   

The Devil Horns sign (also known as il cornuto, cornuto, the horn, horned devil, twin-horned salute, horned hand, devil salute, and devil horn salute) is a recognition sign among Satanists and witches. Remember that Satan is called “The Horned God,” so the hand signal is formed so as to resemble horns.  -Dr. Cathy Burns, Masonic And Occult Symbols Illustrated.

Below is the opening frame of Ken Ramey's Student Camp 2012 now deleted video.  


     lbc--wc-12--kid squid..devil horns.png 


Masonic_Two_Pillar_Signs.gif 


Rick Holland has preached at Lakeside Bible Church.  He was one of the three leaders of Camp Regeneration in 2011 (perhaps LBC participated at that camp). For 25 years he served as the Executive Pastor of Grace Community Church under John MacArthur. Note Pastor Holland’s hands in the picture below at Camp Regen 2011. He is summoning the Horned God and the Crescent Crowned Goddess as he preaches to the youth assembly. It is unnatural to do, especially with both hands, accidentally.  

 Rick_Holland--Camp_Regen--Hand_Signs.jpg 

Rick Holland is not blessing the youth but casting a spell on them. This can be seen in the following excerpt from a website that teaches Harry Potter witchcraft:

“A wandless spell is a spell which is performed without the use of a wand. This form of magic can be particularly volatile, and can only be used effectively by powerful and disciplined wizards and witches. Sometimes, specific hand gestures focus the power of the spell and guide it to the target. This magic can be coupled with silent magic to cast spells under any circumstances.” (Harry Potter Wiki)





couragehonor

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Reply with quote  #34 
The guy in the picture in the army shirt is Mr. Gallego. He and his wife do a lot with the youth. They chaperone WINTER AND SUMMER CAMPS, DNOW, six flags trips and so fourth. They do kids club to I believe word of life clubs for kids, and an activity with the elementary school for kids to come and do bible camp as an out reach to the community. He and his wife are one of many who are involved with the youth like this. As you can see he seems to not have an issue initiating and leading you into this dead animal part game.
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Reply with quote  #35 
leading youth I meant to say.
bjw

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Reply with quote  #36 
It's funny you mention theme parks, and I don't mean to derail this thread too much, but are theme parks still viewed as a waste of time by most membership?  It's funny you mention Six Flags because the cult's college campus is literally down the road from a large Six Flags park, you can even see the rides from the upper dorms.  Anyway, I took a cult member to the park with me once and he had to keep his witnessing up, so he was actually witnessing to the people we would pass in the ride lines.  He always found a way to mention John MacArthur's new book, and reminded them to go check it out.  I remember being embarrased as he would say "Have you ever heard of John MacArthur?"  I remember my counselor put me through the Restoration Process for going too often and not serving the church enough.  The only time they encouraged theme parks was when wow staff would take potential recruits from high schools to Six Flags during preview weekend (had to make it look all rosy for them), and Disney gave all students and members a half price admission weekend at Disneyland twice per year. (It seems like the cult would close on a Friday and Saturday and buy in bulk in a group deal, then sell to the students) I know other than that it was frowned upon as taking up too much of your time.

You know it's sad when young people have to balance their entertainment with works to merit salvation. Are things a little bit easier on the young people there? It looks like they are implementing the group process as well as the games as stated earlier, so it's probably heading the same direction.

watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #37 
I took the time the other day to read a few years of the LBC newsletters and it looks like LBC is a replica of GCC.  LBC even promotes all the same teachers and books.  I saw that in 2011 LBC encouraged the congregation to read John Macarthur's "Slave", which has to be one of the most unbiblical and evil books ever written by anyone who has named the name of Christ.  But its title reveals the truth of how Macarthur views Christians.   I would imagine the LBC congregation is also now being conditioned for "Christian" slavery.  

Slave book pic.png 

   Slave_Book_Lucifer_1_.jpg


couragehonor

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Reply with quote  #38 
Ken and the leaders view us as slaves to Christ and go as far as to tell you so in their counseling. Your employer is your master or at the very least you are to submit to them as of we are back in biblical times. Your not allowed to question that and the counseling methods provide no hope for the believer.
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Reply with quote  #39 
This is of course been my experience. I don't know about everyone else. It seems to me to that LBC is a minature GCC
watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #40 
Jesus came to set the captives free and Macarthur and his trained pastors are zealous to put them all back in bondage.  A slave doesn't abide in the house.  A slave has no inheritance.  Jesus said I no longer call you servants but friends.  Will our Father soon tell His Son to go and fetch His slave or His bride?  If we are slaves at all it is a slavery of love.  God always makes us free, it's Satan and his agents who seek to enslave.  And Macarthur's book, Slave, is just a disinfo piece filled with lies and heretical sources.  Did you see the list of heretical sources Macarthur used to "make" his case in "Slave?"  It's stunning to see them...But I'll bet very few have ever bothered to check.  They assume the book must be biblical because it was written by a famous pastor promoted by the world's media...as if a true Christian would ever be invited on Larry King Live or FOX News.   

Please take 5 minutes to read the heretical sources Macarthur used to convince Christians that they are slaves.  It's incredible...and in and of itself shows Macarthur merely a deceiver. 
http://www.thewatchmanwakes.com/John-Macarthur-Heretical-Sources-.html
watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #41 
Have you seen the video produced by Grace To You (actually produced by Macarthur's son-in-law) to promote his "Slave" book?  This video actually depicts a scene from ancient Egypt where a master is holding a flail above his slave ready to scourge him.  What's the meaning of this scene?  Macarthur is the master and Christians are merely his slaves?  You can see this depicted at the 1:04 mark.  Also, notice the Masonic symbol (the all seeing eye made with the letter "A") at the 1:15 mark.

Why would Macarthur's son-in-law, Kory Welch, incorporate Masonic symbols within the Grace To You videos?  Why does the Grand Masonic Lodge of Canada reference John Macarthur in its private communique to its Grand Masters?  Macarthur's full name is John Fullerton Macarthur.  He's named for his great grandfather, Thomas Fullerton, the Grand Master of the Grand Masonic Lodge of Prince Edward Island, Canada.  And in case some don't know the significance of these facts, the god of Freemasonry is Lucifer.    



Mark Shriver

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Posts: 36
Reply with quote  #42 
"Pastor" Ken Ramey is another Macarthurite to stay far away from. 
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The Watchman Wakes In Vain
    Except the Lord build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the                 Lord keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.  Psalm 127:1
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