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watch-pray

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John Macarthur preaches against the Emergent Church and its doctrinal errors, however, the endnotes throughout his popular book, Slave: The Hidden Truth About Your Identity in Christ, favorably reference the heretical works of Gnostic, modernist and postmodern scholars who deny the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith. Many of these liberal scholars are anti-Christian and their works, which Macarthur recommends as authoritative, are filled with slander and blasphemy of the Lord Jesus Christ.  One example of the many anti-Christian sources in Slave is Yale professor, Dale B. Martin, a practicing homosexual and author of a book, Sex & the Single Savior, which attempts to prove that Jesus was a homosexual.  Nowhere does John MacArthur reveal the true identity and blasphemous works of Dale B. Martin.

Francis Chan is a popular preacher in the Emergent Church. The hidden agenda of the Emergent Church is to transition Christians from the Word of God and sound doctrine to liberal postmodern theology, the social gospel and Gnostic doctrine, that is, secret knowledge of occult mysteries which will enable them to access the spiritual (demonic) realm.

Francis Chan received his undergraduate education at The Master’s College and training for ministry at The Master’s Seminary. In his best-selling book, Crazy Love, Francis Chan’s message is similar to MacArthur's, that salvation is obtained through a system of works and spiritual experiences instead of simple faith in the finished work of Christ.  To support his thesis, Chan quoted a homosexual Catholic priest and mystic, Henri Nouwen, without disclosing the man’s religion and lifestyle, thereby giving readers the impression that Nouwen was a Christian.  Both Chan and MacArthur maintain that the Christian Church has been in error lo these many centuries and has preached a false gospel of “easy believism” instead of “radical Christianity” which is akin to the spiritual bondage of pagan religions.

John MacArthur and Grace Community Church also funded and supported Gary Ezzo, the author of Babywise, a series of popular books on child rearing.  Ezzo and his wife, Ann Marie, were sponsored and promoted by Grace Community Church during the 1980s and 1990s, and then launched Growing Families International which expanded into 93 countries, reaching more than a million followers. Their book series, Babywise, warns parents of newborns to maintain a strict feeding schedule and not to respond to their baby's cries for mere attention. Gary and Ann Marie Ezzo reject the traditional belief that mother and child need to bond early in life for the baby to develop normally, and, to support their program, they quote radical feminist sources without identifying their liberal affiliations and agenda.

One source is psychologist, Michael E. Lamb, a member of the ACLU and NOW (among other liberal and Communist organizations), who actively promotes feminism, gay rights and same sex marriage. The second source cited by Ezzo as an authority on parenting is Diane E. Eyer, a New Age Healer, Reike Master and radical feminist.  Although the Ezzos present their theories of "detachment parenting" as God's way, their child rearing program is a revival of the 1970s feminist movement which liberated millions of women from the constraints of caring for their children. Unfortunately, the younger generation of parents does not remember the early days of the feminist movement and its strident demands for women's liberation which instigated the breakdown of the family.   

The agenda of the feminist and gay rights movement is the destruction of the traditional family and a new social order. Because John MacArthur, Francis Chan and Gary Ezzo use feminist and gay rights activists as support for their false teachings, it is not unreasonable to surmise that their agenda may also be the destruction of the family and family bonds. Who could successfully promote the anti-Christian agenda of women’s liberation, the social gospel and mysticism in Christian churches but leaders who are reputed to be biblical and conservative?

John MacArthur has a reputation for being a doctrinally sound expositor of God’s Word and a defender of the faith against apostasy. He also preaches the family values presented in the Bible. Yet John MacArthur and the men he has mentored and launched into ministry are proposing drastic changes in the doctrines of the Church and also the nature and order of the family. Notwithstanding their claims of orthodoxy, these men are stealthily transitioning the next generation to the liberal, heretical Emergent Church, which preaches a social gospel of works, moral relativism and reliance on mystical experiences instead of obedience to the Word of God.  And to insure that the next generation abandons traditional Bible-based churches and embraces the new way of doing church, they are destroying family bonds so that young people will reject the Biblical Christianity of their parents.

John MacArthur, Frances Chan and Gary Ezzo are only a few of the false teachers who have hijacked the Christian Church and are transitioning Christians from the doctrine of salvation by faith in Jesus Christ alone to the social gospel, liberal theology, and mystical experiences as the way to knowing God. These men do not do this overtly, but by stealth; for example, concealing vital information about the the sources referenced in their books. For this reason, it is imperative that Christians check out the sources in the footnotes and endnotes in all books promoted as “Christian” to verify that they are in fact based on Christian sources, except for sources explicitly identified as non-Christian.  

The endgame of the Emergent Church, and those who deceptively promote its leaders and agenda, is to lead the apostate Church into full-blown occultism, which will culminate in receiving the mark of the Beast at a global initiation during the Tribulation period. This will be a pagan ritual of pledging allegiance to Lucifer which will damn multitudes of professing Christians to eternity in hell. Predictably, John MacArthur has already assured his church that those who receive the mark of the Beast will not be damned for eternity but may still be redeemed

watchmanwakes

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What vital information about the sources referenced in his book "Slave" has John Macarthur concealed in his effort to deceptively promote the Emergent Church's agenda?  To what end is John MacArthur determined to prove that Christians are slaves of God and Christ? 

In the following I've taken the liberty to list some of the sources Macarthur used to "make" his case in "Slave" along with some of the vital information Macarthur concealed from his readers concerning the sources.  This list only includes a very small fraction of the information contained in "John Macarthur's Heretical Sources" and "John Macarthur's Christian Slavery" which I strongly urge all Christians to read.

Dale B. Martin--a Yale professor and an admitted homosexual "who blasphemes Jesus Christ as a homosexual."

Bart D Ehrman--"writes books that debunk the Bible and promote the false God and counterfeit Jesus found in non-canonical writings."

Walter Wurzburger--a Rabbi and leader of Orthodox Judaism who promoted the Talmud and Kabbalah.  "Why would John MacArthur also conceal the late Rabbi Walter Wurzburger’s Jewish title in his reference note?"

Janet Martin Soskice--
a past president of the Catholic Theological Association of Great Britain and "a feminist theologian whose books advocate for women in the priesthood and also for the Holy Spirit as female."

Murray J Harris--a professor at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School who denies the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ.


Karl Heinrich Rengstorf--a German Lutheran theologian who promoted the teaching of the Jewish Kabbalist, Martin Buber, and who believed Jewish Hasidim "had a special mission to our time." 

James Aloysius Kleist--a Jesuit priest who referenced The First Epistle of Clement of Rome.

John Allen Giles--"rejected the dating and authenticity of the Old Testament as well as the apostolic authorship of the New Testament and he supported the views of formidable opponents of early Christianity, Celsus and Porphyry...Celsus was a second century Greek philosopher who wrote that Jesus was illegitimate and learned magic in Egypt. Porphyry was a third century neo-Platonist..."

J. Albert Harrill--"...rejects 'the old 'biblical theology' approach' and interprets passages of Scripture as a literary device, comparing them to Greek and Roman theater..."

Jennifer Glancy--"a Professor of Religious Studies at Le Moyne College, which was founded by the Jesuit Order...an intructor at Union Theological Seminary...Her research into the 'feminist sexual ethics' of Christian slavery has been funded by Ford Foundation..."

Reginald E. O. White--
"
Reginald E. O. White’s Christian Ethics is an apologetic for the 'social gospel' which feigned to embrace the moral principles taught by Jesus Christ as a ploy to move mankind into the New Age."

The Shepherd of Hermas--an Apocryphal work identified by Theosophist H. P. Blavatsky as a “kabbalistic text.”

The Epistle of Clement--an Apocryphal work

The Septuagint--a perverted translation written by Alexandrian Jews which included the Apocrypha. 

How many Christians who purchased "Slave" have been duped into believing Macarthur's thesis because they didn't take the time to check the heretical sources he used?   
bjw

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I have not read the slave book, but from what I've seen on here it sounds like it is the third book in a series of books written to enforce the "us vs them" motif of Lordship Salvation, placing all Christians in one of two categories.  A prime belief here is you are not making Christ "Lord" of your life unless you enter a lordship/discipleship commitment, which basically amounts to a slave/master relationship with Christ via His earthly representatives your church elders.  If you reject this you are accused of not believing Jesus is Lord.  The other two books I was speaking of are called "The Gospel According to Jesus" and "Faith Works: the Gospel According to the Apostles."
 
The whole doctrine can be summarized in the appendix of the study bible they publish where there is a three part list called "Character of Genuine Saving Faith."  You see some kind of mentor or counselor said to be more mature than you to make sure you confess sins and produce the fruits on the list.  Sinning or not showing more fruit than previously is "stumbling," which doing three times can get you shunned temporarily, or permanently should you no longer believe the doctrine, which means you were never saved.

Anyway, the reason the authors watchmanwakes mentioned are quoted in the book is to make the book itself appear scholarly.  MacArthur is sold to new recruits as being a kind of theological genius that has done research for the last 50 or so years finding what was wrong with Christian doctrine.  In their minds he has done all this research of authors and scholars in so many different religions and fields so that God has blessed him with an impenetrable fortress of knowledge, so there is no way he can be wrong.  They also feel the Spirit led him to this knowledge, two people that have the Spirit cannot have different theologies, so they are the only ones with the truth.  If you listen to sermons you will hear him go into ancient languages, customs, and all kinds of topics to give a "scholarly" appearance.

 

While the research here about the Slave book should be enough to convince most people that this deviates from Christianity, they still won't see it because they have so much faith in MacArthur's knowledge they will just see this as part of MacArthur's search to find them the truth.  The people this cult targets usually come from four different categories: have little theological background before their conversion, were raised in it, are youth or young people at a crossroads in their life, or are people hurt by a previous cult or ministry that was either too strict or too permissive.  This cult is sold in a logical way that makes a lot of sense in the early stages.  The elder structure is in a way where members mentor each other without a traditional leadership structure, and this appeals to some that feel like they were "passed up" in other organizations.  This also could explain how this will segway to the Emergent church structure.

Hopefully someone will research what you wrote and realize there is an agenda to change Christianity that is common to MacArthur as well as the authors he researches.  I know the Watchtower society has used the "slave" motif for many years, calling their organization the "faithful and discreet slave" and empasizing the slavery of the members.  We already knew he copied Scientology, now maybe he is copying Jehovah's Witnesses as well.

I have met a few of their followers who are more isolated and already believe a majority of Christianity has adopted the lordship position, so it is important to get this message out to them.  Interestingly enough, in the Moody Handbook of Theology that was around back in the 90s (I haven't seen any newer editions) Lordship Salvation is referred to as a heresy in the list of erroneous views of salvation, only they call it "believe and surrender."  The irony is the 300 level theology courses required this back then.  I showed this to a few people who actually had to discuss it with the chaplain because it gave them doubts.  If only more would open their eyes.

 

watchmanwakes

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjw
While the research here about the Slave book should be enough to convince most people that this deviates from Christianity, they still won't see it because they have so much faith in MacArthur's knowledge they will just see this as part of MacArthur's search to find them the truth.  


Well that's precisely the problem.  They trust Macarthur and they idolize him and practically worship him.  And being so blinded by their master, they can't see that Macarthur's true intent is to deceive and enslave them and ultimately to lead them into an occult initiation.  Macarthur's followers can only have themselves to blame. 

Macarthur publishes a book which attempts to radically change a Christian's relationship to God from child and bride to slave.  And in that book Macarthur references the works of homosexuals, radical feminists, heretics, a Jewish Rabbi, a Jesuit priest and Apocryphal works to make his case...and his followers will see this as Macarthur's attempt to find truth?   

Macarthur's "Slave" book is a desperate lie written by a man who is so desperate to make his case that he had to resort to citing numerous deviants.  And sadly, I'm not aware of even one of Macarthur's followers who has sounded any alarm over this.     
watchmanwakes

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Some Christians have corroborated a few of our findings regarding Macarthur.  Below is a comment made by a Christian 4 years ago taken from John Macarthur's Mind Control Cult

-------------------    

Posted by: HansTaaibosch
Date: September 07, 2011 05:00AM

Wow. JM slays the infidels verbally wherever he finds them.

John "Abdullah" MacArthur needs to be exposed. His Lordship salvation has already been exposed, but his personal conduct has not. Churches in my area have been destroyed because of him, including the one where I grew up. They would never have allowed a Jehovah's Witness, a Mormon, a Muslim, or a Roman Catholic traditionalist have positions of authority as pastor or deacons, but they permitted JM's henchmen because they thought JM and his crew of the same mindset regarding the gospel of grace. But they were wrong, and so their church was turned into another output for JM's variant of works salvation.

Lordship salvation is simply works salvation, and JM clearly teaches this.

JM lives as an enemy of Christ.
JM is a control freak.
JM uses humiliation and retaliation as methods of control.
JM teaches that Christians are slaves of Christ, and is very hung up on it.
JM is arrogant.
JM is cruel.
JM is self-important.
JM is just like any other cultist.
JM destroys lives.
JM denies the Lord who bought him.
JM is an empty field, twice dead, bearing thorns and thistles.

According to his own book "Beware the Pretenders", we need to beware JM. The shoe fits.

Mohammed had an agenda: build a harem, so he can molest kids.
JM also has an agenda: strip Christians of blessed assurance.
"Islam" means "submitter".  JM has also founded a society of submitters. He treats them like slaves. One of his books teaches that Christians are slaves of Christ, submitters ("Muslims") to his Lordship.

 

bjw

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You are correct about the problem. There is no questioning of doctrine allowed in this organization, and if you do you are repeatedly confronted or retaliated against. It is also scary nobody will leave over these occult references. Jesuits have opposed protestant Christianity since their inception, and Blavatsky and some new agers believe heresies like Satan being the Holy Ghost. If MacArthur or others promoting this emergent movement are planning to peddle these new age doctrines this could be very destructive, and it makes you wonder what those at the top of the pyramid believe secretly.

If this Slave doctrine were really true, why can't he use the "biblical" scholars that speak at his chapel sessions and write the books they sell? Why would it be necessary to use blatant heretics as references? There are many lordship authors that follow MacArthur and the claim is always made during wow weeks that the best Bible scholars in the world are at TMC and TMS. Why not use some of these as references? If you are a member or student lurking on here, please think about this and research this carefully.
watchmanwakes

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"The claim is always made during wow weeks that the best Bible scholars in the world are at TMC and TMS."

Francis Chan graduated from TMC and TMS apparently without learning even the simple gospel of Jesus Christ.  So despite learning from "the best bible scholars in the world," he's gone on to promote the doctrines of the Emergent Church. 

Not long ago Francis Chan even spoke at Saddleback Church

Do the Grace Community Church leaders now warn their members about Francis Chan?  In 2007, Phil Johnson wrote a blog post called Just Stop and Think about a video Chan produced.  In that post Phil Johnson stated the following about Chan:

"Pastor Chan has a fine reputation as a pastor and communicator. Everything I have ever heard about him from people who have worked with him and attended his church is completely positive. I know nothing about the nuances of his theological persuasion other than what I have gleaned from his website. His doctrinal stance seems to reflect substantial if not complete agreement with the doctrinal statement of the Master's Seminary. Although he is apparently not as rigorous in his Calvinism as I would be, that would be true of lots of men whom I nevertheless respect..."

"I seriously think it's a stretch to accuse Francis Chan of denying any essential Christian doctrine or deliberately twisting the gospel.

"In fact, I have a much higher opinion of the way Pastor Chan is doing evangelism than I have of the way some of his critics are neglecting it. Chan and his congregation, by all accounts, are actually reaching out to their community."


watchmanwakes

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What kind of ministers are produced by The Masters College and The Masters Seminary?  What kind of ministers are invited to speak at Saddleback Church?  The following was taken taken from a review of Francis Chan's best-selling book, Crazy Love, written on the Truth or Trend blog.  I just included the first two paragraphs here and one can go to the Truth or Trend blog to read the rest. 


Crazy Love/ Francis Chan Book Review (Trend of Austerity)

First of all, I found this book to be a difficult read.  It was written in a choppy manner that left me at some points quite confused.  I agree with Francis on very few ideas.  These include the awesomeness of God, the attributes of God, and the wonders of his creation.  The one or two times that Francis mentions salvation by faith in Christ alone through grace alone is another area that he and I agree.  Although I think that he has doubts about this doctrine which I will explain further.  Sadly, there is little else in this book that would allow me to be in agreement with his ideas. 

If I hadn't ordered this book on my Kindle it would be resting in my garbage can right now.  Francis does not handle scripture rightly and he has such a poor exegesis of major passages that he uses to underpin this book.  He does not give credit to any concordance or Bible commentary in his bibliography and I don't believe that this is something that was overlooked.  I honestly don't believe he used these tools.  He also quotes from people who are definitely unsaved as though they are Christians and actually have something to say to God's people for their edification.  He also esteems highly the works of those who dabble in mysticism, monasticism, and the emergent movement........

bjw

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I read the critique at the truth or trend blog, and she does show a lot of his contradictions in interpretations, and it looks like she is one of their own, since she cites MacArthur and Giesler as sources.  The good thing is some lordship people are not accepting the constant spoonfeed of authors even if this woman still reveres MacArthur.  I looked at a previous entry from November 2013 (Reflections on Strange Fire) and it's ironic how she critiques a John MacArthur sermon that says people are afraid to question celebrity pastors, and after several of MacArthur's points about charismatics not relying on scripture alone, she then says in the next paragraph:

John MacArthur made a statement that encouraged me so much.  He said "If you are praying for revival, wake up, reformed theology is everywhere." It's true.  We have so much access to the Truth.  We have an infinite number of sermons available at our fingertips.  There are countless theology books available on Kindle. We need to study the Scriptures diligently so that we can know what is true and what is false.  The Charismatic movement doesn't want to be examined.  They turn discernment into iniquity and attack sound doctrine.  Truth matters and we have a huge responsibility given to us to discern and test all things. (1John 4:1) (End Quote)

This is just sad, the very thing she is complaining against is exactly what this cult is guilty of. The sermons and theology books are now available everywhere, so basically there's no excuse for us to not have the truth. We can now study the scriptures diligently. If the Scriptures are sufficient why are lordship sermons and theology books necessary, after all they complain charismatics don't rely on scripture alone. I was literally in tears my last week there trying to explain the fallacy of this very reasoning to a dear friend of mine I lost because of the shunning policy, who is now an elder for them. Another sad thing is the blog author put John Calvin on the same footing as the Apostle Paul in a previous post. Does she realize Calvin murdered over 200 people and set himself up as a dictator, whereas Paul was whipped repeatedly and tortured to death for the Gospel? Hopefully noticing Chan's errors will start her waking up process.

I'm glad the truth is starting to get out that authors like MacArthur and Chan use heretical sources. In my opinion authors like this (MacArthur, Chan, etc, not the blog author) are worse frauds than the heretics they quote, since they are repackaging recycled heresies as Christianity and selling it to unsuspecting Christians as a return to true Christianity. In reality it is pseudo-intellectual plagiarism that attempts to apply mind control to gain followers. Let's hope people really do use the internet to get the whole story before getting sold this drivel.
watchmanwakes

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Quote:
Originally Posted by watch-pray

The endgame of the Emergent Church, and those who deceptively promote its leaders and agenda, is to lead the apostate Church into full-blown occultism, which will culminate in receiving the mark of the Beast at a global initiation during the Tribulation period. This will be a pagan ritual of pledging allegiance to Lucifer which will damn multitudes of professing Christians to eternity in hell. Predictably, John MacArthur has already assured his church that those who receive the mark of the Beast will not be damned for eternity but may still be redeemed



One may have hoped that there would have been a mass exodus from Macarthur's global network of ministries once it came to light that he taught that taking the mark of the Beast was forgivable.  And especially after Phil Johnson, his propaganda minister, publicly reiterated Macarthur's heretical and deadly teaching, one would think the Grace Church membership would run for their eternal lives for the exits. But since the Grace Church membership is even now defending their master's teaching, one can only conclude that this congregation is kept in bondage by a mind control that will indeed one day lead many of them to take the mark of the Beast and to their damnation.  

watch-pray

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Bjw, I commented on the Truth or Trend blog with a link to John MacArthur: Mainstreaming Paganism in the Church. I hoped this lady would avail herself of our research since she wrote "I also appreciate John MacArthur. However, I investigate everything for myself in light of Scripture."  Sadly, my comment and link were never posted.

The spiritual blindness in the Reformed movement is very hard to penetrate.  Reformed theology seems to appeal to college educated young Christians because the Reformed churches teach the Bible expositionally and Reformed theology is very systematic and therefore seems intellectual. And it is elitist, looking down its collective nose on the uninformed masses of Dispensationalists, Arminians and Charismatics.  And because the preaching and teaching in most other churches is truly abysmal, there is a famine of the Word of God in the land and most Christians are starving spiritually. So many young believers flock to the Reformed churches where they are indoctrinated in false doctrines such as "limited atonement" and told they are finally learning sound doctrine and are among the elect.

Yet despite their claims to "investigate everything in light of Scripture" these young Christians do not really study the Word of God for themselves, and therefore they do not know the Word of God thoroughly. Nor are they taught by the Holy Spirit, but rely on men who are total strangers, with a hidden (Masonic) agenda, to teach them. If they really knew the Word of God, verses such as 1 Tim. 2:1-6, 2 Peter 3:9 and 1 John 2:2 would come to mind when they hear the false teaching of limited atonement.

"I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time."

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:9

"And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." 1 John 2:2
watchmanwakes

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"Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.  And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.  This he said, signifying what death he should die."  John 12:31-33

"For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:" 2 Cor 5:14

"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man." Heb 2:9

BTW, it's also quite possible that Jenna and Amy's opposition to the Emergent Church is merely controlled.  I say this because Jenna did allow the comment made by James Sundquist, Amy's "good friend" and author of "Who's Driving the Purpose Driven Church?"  Years ago James Sundquist corroborated my findings that John Macarthur's single's ministries were following the Purpose Driven model.  Then James continued to praise John Macarthur on his website for his "opposition" to the Purpose Driven movement.  I told Amy this in a recent email without getting any response.
bjw

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They always love to show how they hold to a so-called " literal" interpretation of Scripture, yet it's easy to find repeated examples where they say "all" does not really mean "all." I too agree their opposition to Emergents is controlled, the same as with psychology, occult, etc. I think one reason for this is if people stumble onto the deeper layers too soon they can trot out the opposition sermons to try to convince you that you are just "misunderstanding" doctrine.

Since these pro-lordship blogs choose to ignore opposition, I wonder if they are afraid to take a look at any other viewpoint or if they are all controlled opposition.
couragehonor

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I stumbled upon your blog and WOW WOW WOW I wish I had found you much sooner. I have come our of a JM worshipping church recently and my eyes have been opened. I never could bring myself to like the guy but let me tell you that the pastor of this church is a JM minion and he is an up and coming pastor who wants the position of phil Johnson and I would dare to say JM himself. Crazy, right? Not really and not so far fetched. These youngso called pastors/followers are trained and mentored at TMI/TMC/GCC then they are ripe to send out from GCC because the hand picked ones from TMI are brought to GCC mentored and sent to take over churches and steal the buildings right out from under unsuspecting Christians. If that doesn't work these men work over the most prominent and influential men in the church with money to steal members and build their own church. I know this for a fact because this pastor spoke at a conference in Pretoria Africa with his best bud phil Johnson and admitted to doing this very thing back where he pastors a church He actually go's into great deal in how he did it and of course he blames the very Christians who saw it and we're going to sue him if he tried to take the buildin. This is crazy stuff but it's true and right from the horses mouth! Listen to Ken Ramey they have the sermons on line at that site and I'd it ever disappears I have it downloaded and screen shotted. It's under disunity /church discipline something to that affect but it's all there. Remember ken gets his Q's straight from his mentor /idol JM he even admits it! These men are out of control and let me also tell you that they have covered up all types of abuses in this church to name a few I recently found out they covered up sex abuse by a so called chiropractor. Child sex abuse where a boy was sexually assaulted by another member whom they allowed back to the church immediately and kept it secret from the members. This churchof about 500 has at least 10 body gaurds some of them armed supposidly to protect the pastor and children from pediphiles!!!! I can't make this stuff up people. We have had it and just left. I know of several members who are afraid to leave or even speak up. Let me just tell you that something is coming that is going to shine a big fat light on these sick men who claim to know Jesus and yet are running God's people away from Him, shame on them! My prayer is for the wounded Christians and that these brothers and sisters will take a stand when the time comes.
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Couragehonor,

Thanks very much for that post.  You've well described the MO of those who graduate from Macarthur's TMC and TMS and then go on to take over these churches from their unsuspecting and trusting congregations.  I've heard similar stories before, but this is the first I've heard of child sexual abuse going on.  I don't know who Ken Ramey is.  Is he that church pastor?  Can you say the name of this church and its Macarthur trained pastor where this child sex abuse is going on?  Thanks.   
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Child abuse didn't occur on the property but by one of the members teenager. Pastor Ramey and the leadership have inserted themselves into the investigation and tried to keep the parent and child silent they also did their nauthetic counseling methods on the parent and child which was terrible. I am alleging that pastor ramey has had an agenda since the night of this child's assault. He apparently showed up on scene after the police were called and since that night has done everything it seems to protect the perpetrator.
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Yes ken ramey is the pastor at lakeside bible church in Montgomery texas. Our family recently left but knew enough to keep it quiet.
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Oh I forgot YES he is a Masters seminary graduate he promotes phil Johnson, MacArthurs books bibles and so many others including his book expository listening which macarthur endorsed and sells to seminary students as part of their classes. These men don't need book tours when they promote each other's books and sell them to members as part of grow group's. That's mass advertising and lots of money for everyone.
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Reply with quote  #19 
This is what the Lakeside Bible Church website says about Ken Ramey:

"Ken Ramey serves as the pastor-teacher of Lakeside Bible Church. Born and raised in Massachusetts, Ken attended Word of Life Bible Institute and School of Youth Ministries in New York and then transferred to The Master’s College in Los Angeles, CA where he graduated with a bachelor’s degree in Youth Ministry. He went on to receive his M. Div. from The Master’s Seminary and joined the pastoral staff at Grace Community Church where he served as the High School Pastor for four years and as professor of Youth Ministry at TMC. He completed his D. Min. in Expository Preaching at TMS and authored Expository Listening. Ken and his wife Kelli were married in 1990 and have three children; Zachariah, Hannah, and Jacob."

Ken Ramey has been trained at John Macarthur's The Master's College, The Master's Seminary, and Grace Community Church.
couragehonor

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Reply with quote  #20 
Yep you got it and he only sells MacArthurs study bibles no other study bibles.
bjw

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Reply with quote  #21 
Couragehonor brings up some things worth mentioning.  One of the dangers of Nouthetic Counseling methods is that it discourages appealing to outside authorities.  Also, they want you to only use their justice system when their people do something to you.  However, when they want to get back at you over something, they will not hesitate to involve police, private detectives, security, collection agencies, and even large groups of their people angry at you at once in a shouting match.  I can see how nouthetic methods, especially the restoration process, would be dangerous in an abuse case like this, since it has a built-in silencing feature.  The victims can't go to a psychologist or school counselor because it's forbidden, and the victim may be convinced they caused the problems themselves through unconfessed sin.  Also, if the abuser was an authority figure they will be told God still requires obedience despite the abuse.  Then, when something major does go wrong they trott out the waivers people sign and remind people it is a church and the government can't intervene.  This system serves two purposes:  protect the organization's reputation, and keep the members in the mind control bubble.

You also bring up a good point about the book scam.  Theology classes at TMC and TMS can run up to $200 or so per class.  Consider New Testament Greek, the textbook alone was $80 for a book with a few hundred pages, plus you have to purchase a concordance and interlinear translation.  Everything is marked way up.  The study bible was to answer Ryrie's study bible, since most of MacArthur's followers bought one and Ryrie disagreed with MacArthur on many issues.  Books are heavily marked up and a big source of income for them.

couragehonor

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Reply with quote  #22 
Funny how you mentioned Ryrie's study bible. I bought my first study bible at bible college twenty years ago and this church that I came out of tried everything to get me to get rid of it. They talked about how he was unbiblical and was wrong compared to macarthur. Plus the only study bible they sold in their book store was macarthur.
bjw

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by couragehonor
Funny how you mentioned Ryrie's study bible. I bought my first study bible at bible college twenty years ago and this church that I came out of tried everything to get me to get rid of it. They talked about how he was unbiblical and was wrong compared to macarthur. Plus the only study bible they sold in their book store was macarthur.
Right, the higher ups in the cult have an extreme dislike of Charles Ryrie and frequently called him "Liarie Ryrie."  The book "So Great Salvation" by Ryrie was successful in leading many people away from Lordship Salvation and was a thorn in their side to the point that they had to write several small books to try to address it, I remember one was a small pamphlet size book called "Lordship Controversy."  They also had some seminary students write papers for the journal on it.  Most in the TMC and TMS community bought the Ryrie Study Bible, I know almost everyone in my apartment building owned one at the time.  This is one reason they stepped up efforts on the study bible by having a whole team of people sitting around a conference table for 20 days straight pouring through MacArthur's notes on each book of the Bible, and I heard people brought them meals and they only stopped to go home and sleep.  There were still issues at first when they could only print it in NKJV, and GCC had just spent thousands putting new NASB Bibles in each pew, which at the time still gave Ryrie an edge.  Now I hear it is in different translations now. I can imagine they didn't like their followers even looking at anything written by Ryrie.

rameyfakey

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Reply with quote  #24 
Your right couragehonor they must be scared now he has removed his sermons from the shepherds conference in n Pretoria Africa and his profile that was up at GCC hs disappeared! !!!! Do you have all the sermons? Did you save or screen shot it all?
couragehonor

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Reply with quote  #25 
Watchmanwakes, it seems like IDCHRISTIAN and THEFARSIDE purposefully posted all those quotes over and over and with arguments just to hide KEN RAMEY it's weird or am I crazy???? Because ken Ramey's sermons are no longer at the website that was quoted Pretoria Africa or his Bio has all of a sudden disappeared from GCC website
couragehonor

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Reply with quote  #26 
I may have been wrong on my last post since I finally found my posts, sorry guys IDCHRISTIAN and the farside
Mark Shriver

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Reply with quote  #27 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjw
 We already knew he [John Macarthur] copied Scientology, now maybe he is copying Jehovah's Witnesses as well.  


Maybe he is.  I wouldn't put anything past him in his desperation to destroy Christianity (the simple faith in Jesus Christ). 
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