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couragehonor

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First allow me to elaborate on why you are seeing this post. Ken Ramey is the pastor of Lakeside Bible Church in Montgomery ,Texas. Our family left this church ,well we ran for the hills. Below you will find a sermon in which Ken has attempted to remove off the Internet and wipe away that he ever was a key speaker or even attended this conference,Grace Fellowship in Pretoria Africa May 23, 2015. Ken Ramey has his sermons posted on every sight where he can post his sermons including places he has been a speaker. So, why would he remove them? I know why! Ken spoke on two different issues which he makes sure they go hand in hand. Defusing Disunity (How Ken caused a church split ) and Search and Rescue exercising church discipline! Ken goes into great detail in how he caused a church split at the very first church he pastored away from GCC (JOHN MACARTHUR ) which was Walden Community Church in Montgomery Texas. Ken makes it a point to point out that John MacArthur is his mentor. He even says in this sermon that he consulted john macarthur right before he split Walden Community Church. He was invited in to be senior pastor by a congregational rule church in which after 2 weeks of arriving he immediately tried to make it elder/pastor rule. The members there caught on quick and threatened him and the elders with a lawsuit. Ken called these members including the former pastor divisive, gossips, unbelievers, angry bitter people who can keep their church pues. He clearly throws them under the bus and then says he didn't. Ken is all about church discipline and exercising it! I guess of course as long as it doesntincude him or his leadership. Ken was invited into a church where they were congregational rule and in the first two weeks ken tried to Shanghai the church and the building. People, he gets into the story of how he did it you really must listen to this,sermon!!!

Ken Ramey Sermon: Pretoria South Africa Shepherd's Conference, May 2015:
mp3 SC15_KR3 (2).mp3     





watchmanwakes

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Ken Ramey: Disciple of John Macarthur
See strong evidence Macarthur is a Freemason: John Macarthur: Freemason

I listened to this sermon and it is telling that Ken Ramey removed it from the internet.  Ramey points out that John Macarthur is his mentor.  He's certainly been well trained by Macarthur having earned 3 degrees from The Master's College and Seminary as well as having worked as a pastor at Grace Community Church.  Now he's the pastor-teacher at Lakeside Bible Church in Montgomery, Texas. Lakeside Bible Church has been a topic for discussion on this forum because its youth camps have involved young church members playing debasing and degrading games in mud with dead animal parts and blood.

Macarthurites are notorious for infiltrating and splitting churches (click here to read a short article about this practice) and changing a church from congregational to elder rule would certainly be an important objective in a church takeover.  

Walden Community Church was a congregational rule church by its church constitution.  They should have known that in inviting any Macarthur trained pastor that they would be inviting someone trained to believe in elder rule only.  Did the Walden elders make it clear to Ramey when they invited him that they wouldn't allow a change to elder rule?  If so, did Ramey agree to this stipulation before accepting the position?  If no discussions of this kind took place prior to Ramey becoming pastor, then it seems to me that Walden Church was courting trouble when they invited Ramey and this was their mistake.  On the other hand, Ramey knew going in that Walden Church was congregational rule and since, being Macarthur trained, he believed only in elder rule, then he should have made his intentions clear to the Walden elders prior to accepting their invitation or he should have just declined their invitation.  It seems Ramey took the pastoral position at Walden Church knowing that he wasn't going to submit to its constitution and knowing that a fight would inevitably ensue with the church members who wanted to uphold their church constitution.  It seems that when Ramey took the job there could be 3 likely outcomes: either he was going to be fired by the congregation for violating their constitution, or the congregation was going to submit to his elder rule change, or the church was going to split. 

Is Ramey's Lakeside Bible Church the result of Walden Church's split? 


 
couragehonor

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YES!!!!!!!! He took 150 of the 200 members from Walden Community Church! He went no more than 2-3 miles up the road from walden community church.
couragehonor

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Also from what I understand a lot of long time friendships ended over this church split and hurt the,remaining members. It was sad.
couragehonor

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Ohhh man did that article on how these guys take over churches and pay themselves salaries and selling off buildings fits ken ramey to a T.
watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #6 
The following from Watch-Pray I think is enlightening and very instructive as it shows clearly that regarding matters of church discipline, church elders have usurped the role of the congregation:

"What you wrote about Ramey changing congregational rule to elder rule reminded me of a study I did on church discipline. Today church elders have usurped the role of the congregation when matters of church discipline arise. Their required procedure is to take the matter directly to the elders instead of to the church as is required by Matthew 18. The result is usually a cover-up or shifting blame from the offender to the victim.  Anyway, here are my notes on church discipline taken from Coke's and Gaebelein's commentaries":

Church Discipline

Mt 18:15 ¶ Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
Mt 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
Mt 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Mt 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

church = assembly. In this case the synagogue, or local court, as in Ac 19:39.

Ver. 15-17. Moreover, if thy brother shall trespass, &c.— Our Lord, having thus spoken to the persons offending, now addresses his discourse to the persons offended, shewing them in what manner they ought to behave towards an offending brother; and whosoever shall closely observe this threefold rule, will seldom offend others, and never be offended himself. "If any, more especially one who is a member of the same religious community, do any thing amiss, of which thou art an eye or ear-witness, first, go and tell him alone: if it may be, in person; if that cannot so well be done, by thy messenger, or in writing: If this succeed, thou hast gained thy brother; hast recovered him to God, who rejoices at the repentance of a sinner; and to thyself, with whom he was at enmity; and so hast saved him from perishing." See Pr 28:23. Observe, our Lord gives no liberty to omit this, or to exchange it for either of the following steps: "If this gentle method do not succeed, Secondly, Take with thee one or two more men whom he esteems and loves, who may then confirm and enforce what thou sayest, and afterwards, if need require, bear witness of what was spoken. (See De 19:15.) If even this do not succeed, then and not before, tell it to the church, or to that particular congregation of the faithful to which he belongs; whose sentence being declared, will shew him, that in the judgment of all good men, thou hast done thy duty, and he is to blame. If all this avail not, you will do well to enter into a protest against him, by forbearing any intimate friendship with such a person; and let him therefore, in this case, be unto thee as an heathen and a publican, or other most notorious sinner, to whom you would perform only the common offices of humanity, but would avoid his intimate society, as scandalous; and to whom you are not under those peculiar obligations, whereby Christian brethren are bound to each other." Can any thing be plainer than this? Christ here as expressly commands all Christians who see a brother do evil, to follow this method, not another, and to take these steps in this order,—as he does, to honour our father and mother... - Coke


Joh 20:19 ¶ Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

The evening scene of that wonderful day, when He stood in their midst, is very suggestive. In a measure the assembled disciples correspond to the two who, in the first chapter, on the first day abode with Him. Though John does not mention the church, here is a beautiful picture of what the church is. They are shut in and Judaism is shut out. He is in the midst. "Where two or three are gathered together unto my name, there am I in the midst." Here it is fulfilled for the first time. There is the message of Peace; the sending forth; the Holy Spirit, Who comes from Him, Who as the last Adam is the quickening Spirit. He communicates spiritual life, which is divine life. And the authority of the church in discipline on earth, representing Himself, is made known by Him in verse 23. This authority is not conferred upon a priestly class, a doctrine which has produced the most obnoxious corruption of Christianity, but upon believers, who constitute a church. - Gaebelein

 

couragehonor

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Reply with quote  #7 
This study or piece is great!!!! Unfortunately Ken Ramey's practice of church discipline constitutes continuous discipline of Lakesides members minor sins while covering up different types of abuses of power, couples sleeping with each other's wives/husbands, pornography issues among the men I leadership (not all ) , issues with elders and deacons being dishonest. I'm alleging these things as I believe them to be true in my own experience and friends who have shared their experiences with us. There are so many good people in this church who have no clue and they truly love the Lord. I have seen so many loving Christians there who are still there and I know many who have left. Pray for this pastor and this church that true reconciliation and acknowledgment of offenses will be brought into the open. It saddens us to have lost so many relationships over doing what we believe is right.
bjw

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Reply with quote  #8 
Matt. 18 is the one they love to twist when justifying the Restoration Process. I think you have to take all of Matthew 18 as a whole to truly understand it, not just those 5 or so verses they always use out of context. When you read the whole thing it becomes obvious it refers to unconditional forgiveness, not the harsh treatment they use. MacArthur, Ramey, and co are closer to the Pharisees who tried to infiltrate Christianity in the book of Acts. It does more and more to remove Christ from the equation and make it closer to old testament practices.
couragehonor

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Reply with quote  #9 
Yes, you nailed it!
bjw

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Reply with quote  #10 
Couragehonor,
The types of things you are describing here have happened in the main organization as well. Check the third list under "Character of Genuine Saving Faith " in the MacArthur Study Bible and you'll see in the 20 or so items it takes for them to earn salvation in the third list it says "guarding" their gospel is necessary. They have no problem using this to justify lying or breaking the law. To them it is moral because they feel to be saved they must protect their superiors.
BIGJAKE

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Reply with quote  #11 
Can the sermon Ken Ramey preached from Africa be reposted? It's not working. It runs for a few minutes then stops, and keeps starting over. I really want to hear it. I'm a member of Lakesibe. These videos are extremely disturbing. I'm interested to hear how playing with animal organs will be explained by them.
watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #12 
BigJake,

The Ramey audio sermon seems to work OK on my end.  Maybe I can try to repost...but maybe it will be the same.  It could be a computer problem. 

I'd also like to hear the LBC leadership explain how kids in mud playing with and dancing around bloody animal parts is edifying or is worshipping to Jesus Christ. 

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