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watchmanwakes

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SO4J TV and Video is a 501C3 entity whose corporate officers are members of John Macarthur's Grace Community Church.  SO4J TV and Video created the graphic below which announces that there have been slanderous rumors spread on the internet about John Macarthur.  In particular, that false rumors have been spread regarding the "Mark of the Beast" and the "Blood of Jesus" issues.  Is this true?  Are those Christians who have warned about Macarthur's teaching guilty of spreading "false rumors" and "slanderous half-truths" as SO4J states?

11892111_10153213753494983_1000691748880423502_n.jpg 

Let's first take a look at the "Mark of the Beast" issue.  When asked during a Q & A session at his church whether one could still be redeemed after taking the mark of the Beast, Macarthur answered in the affirmative 3 times.  One can read Macarthur's response to the question here and listen to the video below.


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When Phil Johnson, the Director of Macarthur's Grace To You, was asked to clarify Macarthur's teaching about the mark of the Beast, he proceeded to reiterate Macarthur's teaching that indeed taking the mark of the Beast was NOT unforgivable.  Johnson's response be read on this Grace To You website

Now let's take a look into the "Blood of Jesus" issue to see if this is also a "false rumor" as SO4J would have us believe.  Christians have been exposing John Macarthur's teaching on the "Blood of Jesus" issue for quite some time and in the following video "John Macarthur Defends Himself on the Blood of Christ," Macarthur makes the following heretical statements:

"You have to stop short of saying 'We are saved by the blood of Jesus', in the sense that there is some efficacy in the fluid that poured out of his body."

"We don't want to get caught into this bizarre notion that somehow in the actual fluid that came out of the body of Jesus there is saving power or saving efficacy."  

"There is nothing in the fluid in his body that in any way in itself could save us."  

 


And in order to learn much more about John Macarthur's teaching on this most important "Blood of Jesus" issue then see also:

John Macarthur's Heretical Teaching Regarding the Blood of Christ

John Macarthur and the Blood of Christ

The Cults, Dr. Macarthur, and the Blood of Christ

Are Christians who have warned publicly about John Macarthur's "Mark of the Beast" and "Blood of Jesus" teachings guilty of spreading false rumors and slanderous half-truths as SO4J claims?  


bjw

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I didn't have the stomach to make it to the false rumor photo when I was on this site. The only damage control they can do is set up a colorful tacky site that would make a telemarketer blush? This reminds me of how Scientology published its own sites that were supposed to be followers answering charges against them, and they dismissed everything in the HBO documentary as false. Is there anything they won't copy from other groups.

They set up a whole site with intro material on Lordship Salvation, attack about 100 other groups, then tell you you're unsaved if you disagree with them. A good way to try to win followers, like anyone wants to be around this, they even make it look confusing, and still don't tell the whole truth about what they really believe. Seems closer to Scientology's "Fair Game" doctrine.
watchmanwakes

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SO4J didn't mention the John Macarthur Freemason and Camp Regen / Druid Festival exposes as being false rumors.  What is Scientology's Fair Game doctrine? 
bjw

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Sorry, I replied too soon before listeining to the two videos.  I would like to comment on these issues...

1.  The mark of the beast issue takes a cabbalistic interpretation of 666, saying 6 is before completion, or 7 which is perfection.   To hold this view, you must add to the passage.  It clearly says the number pertains to a man, not man as in the human race.  Also, I don't think he taught this view yet when I was there, or I wouldn't have stayed as long as I did.  The video clearly contradicts the website, and the Bible clearly teaches the opposite of what MacArthur does.

2.  This issue I am more familiar with as it was taught when I was there, as I mentioned in another thread a wow staffer told me once Jesus died so we can live again and to make our church services less messy.  This shows they only understand the death aspect of the atonement.  The wages of sin is death, so Christ died so we can live again, but if you sin while alive or don't increase your fruits you are not making Jesus "lord," He stops hearing your prayers until you are right again, and you must confess over and over and always improve or you were "self-deceived."  Denial of the Atonement is what makes them apart from Christianity in my opinion.

These two doctrines alone, straight from the horses mouth, should show this is far from Christianity.  I have not seen any church outside the lordship camp with bizarre doctrines like this.  Even some groups they call "cults" have not gone this far. Both of these are blasphemous.

bjw

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Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by watchmanwakes
SO4J didn't mention the John Macarthur Freemason and Camp Regen / Druid Festival exposes as being false rumors.  What is Scientology's Fair Game doctrine? 
I guess they knew they couldn't get out of kids circling a dead pig.

Here's an article on fair game, basically it says always attack critics, never defend, and they use it today putting up tacky websites attacking critics and denying things people have proven true:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology)
revcoltom

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I saw more of the "aftermath " of the "man attacks John Macarthur " video from a person in the front  pew who posted their video,
Again this all looks really rehearsed - the jovial tone of this and very smirking and snarky responses do not like like Grace or  a Christ Like response.
If this is a false prophet or mentally ill man or a demonic attack on the church service then it is hardly something to make jokes about.
The Sold out 4 Jesus site looks like a conspiracy nut attacking a "truther" or worse.
I know many people who love and are deeply committed to this ministry.
Is this just some publicity stunt to raise ratings? It hardly seems needed.
Personally years ago when I understood some of the deceptive influences flooding into evangelical circles
 I as a minister, began to examine and guard everyone and everything I allowed to influence my spiritual life and study . These days the people of God cannot  take things at face value . and really could we ever? Satan transforms himself as a angel of light how mush more his ministers?
This sold out 4 Jesus site looks like a hoax  calling someone else a hoax.
Watchman you must be striking  a nerve !
revcoltom

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjw
I didn't have the stomach to make it to the false rumor photo when I was on this site. The only damage control they can do is set up a colorful tacky site that would make a telemarketer blush? This reminds me of how Scientology published its own sites that were supposed to be followers answering charges against them, and they dismissed everything in the HBO documentary as false. Is there anything they won't copy from other groups. They set up a whole site with intro material on Lordship Salvation, attack about 100 other groups, then tell you you're unsaved if you disagree with them. A good way to try to win followers, like anyone wants to be around this, they even make it look confusing, and still don't tell the whole truth about what they really believe. Seems closer to Scientology's "Fair Game" doctrine.


The make a telemarketer bush comment gave me the first laugh of day. Thank you! The site is tacky by design which is suspect. I looked at your link Watchman these guys are pros there graphics are to cast a shadow on you .
bjw

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by revcoltom
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjw
I didn't have the stomach to make it to the false rumor photo when I was on this site. The only damage control they can do is set up a colorful tacky site that would make a telemarketer blush? This reminds me of how Scientology published its own sites that were supposed to be followers answering charges against them, and they dismissed everything in the HBO documentary as false. Is there anything they won't copy from other groups. They set up a whole site with intro material on Lordship Salvation, attack about 100 other groups, then tell you you're unsaved if you disagree with them. A good way to try to win followers, like anyone wants to be around this, they even make it look confusing, and still don't tell the whole truth about what they really believe. Seems closer to Scientology's "Fair Game" doctrine.


The make a telemarketer bush comment gave me the first laugh of day. Thank you! The site is tacky by design which is suspect. I looked at your link Watchman these guys are pros there graphics are to cast a shadow on you .
Thanks, glad you like my sense of humor :)

I agree with you that it was wrong how they handled that guy. I know they don't believe in mental illness but even if they think he has sin issues they shouldn't make light of him, and if he's a false prophet maybe tell why, instead of saying prophets act like prophets (a quote he attributed to Paul). I don't know, I still believe it was all staged, from the yelling man all the way to the website.
IDChristian

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Reply with quote  #9 
This poster tells us to check our facts. How about checking our Bibles....? If people would believe the Bible for themselves and take John MacArthur off an idolatrous pedestal, it would be sufficient to set them straight.

Fact: John MacArthur says it was not the literal blood of Jesus that saves us. Then he denies that he says that. Then he denies that he isn't saying that. In the end, he insists that he is right...it's Jesus death that saves us...period. Not the blood. He's just twisted the truth into a lie. How deceptive of him. Everything he says from here on is endless Christianized philosophy that means nothing.

Fact: Here's what the Bible says.

Hebrews 9:12Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. 13For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Fact checker...who will you believe? God's Word or the poison of a serpent's lie? Because if you don't believe that it's the blood of Christ that cleanses you from all sin, then you don't have true salvation. It doesn't matter how many scriptures JMac quotes to us instructing us to be gentle and kind to other Christians, if his message is wrong, then he's no Christian. He's a wolf in sheep's clothing and we are to pull off his sheep disguise and expose him for what he is.

If this was his only heresy, it would still be enough to discredit his ministry. But it's not his only heresy, is it?
IDChristian

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2 Thessalonians 2:10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Can someone stay in this environment and be a real Christian? It's about as likely as staying in the Mormon or the Jehovah's Witnesses cult. There is some truth but the foundation is faulty. Christ said if the the foundation is faulty, the whole building is built on sand and will not withstand the storms that are to come. Short of total repentance from dead works, there is no way you can sit under a ministry that is twisting truth and come out with a righteousness of Christ.

These men use scripture to fit their own presuppositions, you could almost equate their unlimited favor to the elect as a promise of immortality. The New Age seeks this also...once you attain the "secret", then you shall live eternally. News flash....there's no secret...just Christ. If you are depending on your own life or works to determine your eternal destiny...you are in bed with a whole lot of other deluded cultists.

Quote from MacArthur: "Salvation isn't the result of an intellectual exercise. It comes from a life lived in obedience and service to Christ as revealed in the Scripture; it's the fruit of actions, not intentions. There's no room for passive spectators: words without actions are empty and futile...The life we live, not the words we speak, determines our eternal destiny" (Hard to Believe, p. 93). [emphasis added]

Lordship salvation sounds great but it's not Biblical. Sure we follow Christ in obedience, but this is not our righteousness. MacArthur has just given two false options for eternal life. The life we live and the words we speak. Neither of these is right. I notice that he uses this Hegelian Dialectic quite often. Two false choices and and then his amazing, profound answer. You are tricked into the Hegelian scheme made up for the purpose of creating a third option...a new and better option...but a lie. A half-truth is still a lie. Check it with the truth in the Bible and you will see how the subtle but definite change has been made.

I believe this strong delusion of John MacArthur is a sign from God that his ministry is false. How obvious does he have to make something before people will waken from slumber. They sit week after week absorbing MacArthur's so called biblical philosophy ignoring blatant lies. They aren't lovers of truth. Therefore, they will be destined to delusion. Scripture is clear....
couragehonor

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Reply with quote  #11 
An awakening is coming
Mark Shriver

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Reply with quote  #12 
The fact that John Macarthur teaches that one can take the Mark of the Beast and still be redeemed and get to Heaven proves that Macarthur is an antichrist and a very very dangerous teacher...  I see no "false rumors" on this site about Macarthur.  I see only truth. 
kr2726

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I used to be friends with the nearly 90 year old widow of the pastor who founded Grace church in Greeley, CO (a Conservative Baptist church). Her husband baptized me in the mid-seventies.

In fact, her husband was president of the Conservative Baptist organization.  She was instrumental in her church's hiring of Travis Allen, who organized the Strange Fire conference.  If you go on http://www.yelp.com and look up Grace church near Greeley, CO, you can read what Travis did to me, merely because I had a dream of Jesus.

However, I wrote a few lengthy emails to this woman as I also forwarded the youtube videos of John MacArthur's blasphemous views on the blood of Christ and taking the mark, telling her that I hoped her loyalty would be to Jesus Christ, and not to the glory of man (she had been instrumental in hiring Travis.  I could see then that she liked "hitching her wagon to a star"; cashing in on John MacArthur's celebrity).

Her son is also in supposed "ministry," and I suspected Travis would be able to hook this ministry into some of the lucrative funding of Grace to You. His ministry is Centers for Christian Study International (called CCSI), a ministry to colllege students.

Rather than turn to SCRIPTURE to see what GOD had to say about the precious blood of Christ, she turned to some COMMENTARY (this is actually "typical Baptist Calvinism," as they idolize the teachings of MAN rather than the WORD OF GOD), and actually DEFENDED John's blasphemous beliefs (I had told her if I believed what John MacArthur believed, I'd be a Christian Scientist, as HE believes what Mary Baker Eddy believes)--and she also forwarded these private emails to church leadership, without ASKING ME! 

THEN she claimed she didn't have time to look up his beliefs on taking the mark, as she accused ME of "digging up things on John MacArthur" (while truth be told, I was OBEYING 1 John 4:1, in not believing all persons, but EXAMINING THEM).

I knew in summer 2016 that her son and his wife were moving to a new house.  Before I realized she and her son were not faithful servants of the Lord, I had foolishly (without consulting the Lord) given her son $5,000 for him to publish his books, thinking it would help his "ministry."

So last March 2017, I was wondering how the moneys I had given her son had benefited his ministry (I also had CCSI on autopay for a few years), and I wondered where her son had moved, so I looked him up online.

Whaddaya know, he is NOW living at 2374 Hillside Terrace, Lafayette, CO.

I sat there with tears streaming down my face as I watched the 37 pictures of this MANSION on http://www.zillow.com, and felt slapped in the face that all my financial sacrifices did was help this charlatan move into a MANSION (and BTW, I'm a service-connected disabled veteran in a POWERCHAIR, living in an apartment!

Additionally, this man holds the position of elder in a Boulder, CO church.  One of the qualifications of an elder is that his children be BELIEVERS.  Not only did this man name two of his children after characters in a book on witchcraft and darkness ("The Shannara Chronicles,"), but one of those children is a shaman; a witchdoctor, and the woman to whom I'm referring had tried to drum up business for this woman, telling me she's "an herbalist," when I was diagnosed with cancer in 2011.

Her father also had written to me that he "hoped she could make a living at it"--when the TRUTH is his daughter is not a Christian, but a servant of Satan.

Her FB page says she is a "former Reiki practitioner at hollow bone and lantern."  She worked for Apothecary Tinctura in Denver, which as Bob Johnson pointed out to me, is "witchcraft and magic." 

I subsequently found out that Apothecary Tinctura is a resource for Colorado's only witchcraft coven, Northern Colorado Covenant of the River.  

I scrolled way back in this woman's FB page, and the ONLY TIME she mentioned God was to exhort her friends to "empty your mind and listen to God" (while an empty mind is the devil's playground!). And she also exhorted people to "strike a yoga pose."

People, as pointed out, 1 John 4:1 commands us, "Do not believe every spirit, but TEST THE SPIRITS to see whether they are of God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world," and I'm left not only knowing that I did NOT give the Lord when I financially supported this mnistry, and I'm also left wondering how these college kids can be entrusted to a man whose daughter practices witchcraft under his very nose, and HE hopes she can make a LIVING AT IT!



kr2726

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Shriver
The fact that John Macarthur teaches that one can take the Mark of the Beast and still be redeemed and get to Heaven proves that Macarthur is an antichrist and a very very dangerous teacher...  I see no "false rumors" on this site about Macarthur.  I see only truth. 


Amen. I am APPALLED by the MacGroupies who actually DEFEND HIM! I used to be FB friends with Phil Johnson, and enjoyed his posts as I know he enjoyed MINE, but then Martha Mac posted on my page that there were "internet rumors" about John MacArthur's beliefs on the blood of Christ and taking the mark.

A few months later, I found the videos CONFIRMING these so-called "rumors," and was appalled. Though it hurt, I knew I had to obey 2 John and have NOTHING TO DO WITH false teachers, and I blocked Phil Johnson and Martha Mac, out of loyalty to my Lord.
watchmanwakes

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kr2726

People, as pointed out, 1 John 4:1 commands us, "Do not believe every spirit, but TEST THE SPIRITS to see whether they are of God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world,



The problem is that Christians haven't been obeying 1 John 4:1.  I'd forgotten what John Macarthur teaches about the blood of Christ.  He's actually been teaching for 40 years that "the blood of Jesus Christ has no power to save."  And he still has thousands of Christians following him, giving money to him, and reading his Zionist study bible...incredible!  It shows that God has given his congregation over to believe the delusion. 
watchmanwakes

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Quote:
Originally Posted by IDChristian
He's [Macarthur's] a wolf in sheep's clothing and we are to pull off his sheep disguise and expose him for what he is. If this was his only heresy, it would still be enough to discredit his ministry. But it's not his only heresy, is it?


John Macarthur is one dangerous wolf in sheep's clothes.  And no, his denial of the blood of Jesus teaching isn't his only heresy.  It's also his and his church's position that one can still be redeemed after taking the Mark of the beast!  And I believe his occultic camps like Camp Regen exist for the purpose of conditioning the youth who attend to accept the Mark.       
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