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watchmanwakes

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In late February 2011 and just two weeks prior to John Macarthur's Shepherds' Conference, I went to Grace Community Church and spoke to John Macarthur.  I'd never met him before and I went up on a Sunday night and waited in a long line after his sermon to speak with him.  Because he'd never met me before, I knew that he wouldn't be on guard and I thought that I'd stand a good chance of catching a glimpse of the real Macarthur.  I still remember it like yesterday.  I asked Macarthur the following:
 
Me:  Dr. Macarthur, will Al Mohler be speaking at the upcoming Pastors' Conference?
Mac: Yes, he will be.
Me:  Do you know that he leads 2 NGO's of the UN?
Mac: Al Mohler would have nothing to do with any organization connected
to the UN.
Me: The Southern Baptist Convention is an NGO of the UN with Special Consultative Status.
Mac: The SBC is in no way connected to the UN.  What is the other organization?
Me: Focus on the Family.  Mohler is its Vice Chairman.
Mac: I know Jim Dobson and he would have nothing to do with the UN.
 
The next Sunday night I went to Macarthur's sermon again holding evidence in paper form to prove what I had said about Mohler, Focus on the Family, and the SBC the previous Sunday night.  Soon after his sermon ended and as I got up to get in line I noticed several security guards speaking in their mikes and converging around me.  There were at least 6 of them and I wondered if I should I just bolt out or stick it out and I decided to stick it out and see what would happen.  When I met Macarthur he said first loudly, "I know you." And I said that I came to show him proof that he was wrong in what he said  previously.  Then he looked at my 10 or so pages and said each time in a sarcastic, condescending tone, "Oh, I see you are right about that--yes, you are right."  The charade continued for about 5 minutes as the guards had me totally surrounded.  The guards then asked me who I was and when I told them, the leader told me to leave and never come back or I'd be arrested.  They then escorted me to the sidewalk out in front of the church and when I got on the sidewalk, Macarthur's bodyguard told me, "You just say one word and you'll spend the night in jail."  It was obvious to me that it was no empty threat.  I then just walked across the street and got in my car and went home.  
watchmanwakes

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A former member of John Macarthur's Grace Community Church recently contacted me and told me that these armed guards Macarthur has stationed throughout his church are referred to as Temple Guards. 

 

watch-pray

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Since I didn't know what a "Temple Guard" was, I looked on the internet and found that some modern bible versions have changed the Hebrew word for "doorkeepers" to "temple guards." Look at the license the Contemporary English Version (CEV) takes with these verses including "Temple Guards" in the chapter heading. Note also the CEV's use of the word "clans" instead of "divisions" or "tribes" (a mistranslation that is finding its way into modern versions as noted in Clan MacArthur).

1 Chronicles 26 Contemporary English Version (CEV)
The Temple Guards Are Assigned Their Duties

1 The temple guards were also divided into groups according to clans.
Meshelemiah son of Kore was from the Korah clan and was a descendant of Asaph.
2 He had seven sons, who were born in the following order: Zechariah, Jediael, Zebadiah, Jathniel,
3 Elam, Jehohanan, and Eliehoenai.
4-5 Obed-Edom had been blessed with eight sons: Shemaiah, Jehozabad, Joah, Sachar, Nethanel, Ammiel, Issachar, and Peullethai.
6-7 Shemaiah was the father of Othni, Rephael, Obed, Elzabad, Elihu, and Semachiah. They were all respected leaders in their clan.
8 There were sixty-two descendants of Obed-Edom who were strong enough to be guards at the temple.

The Hebrew word שׁוֺעֵר means a "doorkeeper" or "janitor" (not temple guard) ...

Strong's Concordance
שׁוֺעֵר#7778  show`er sho-are' or shomer:
active participle of 8176 (as denominative from 8179);
a janitor, doorkeeper, porter.

The King James Version translates the Hebrew as "porters":

1 Concerning the divisions of the porters: Of the Korhites was Meshelemiah the son of Kore, of the sons of Asaph.
2 And the sons of Meshelemiah were, Zechariah the firstborn, Jediael the second, Zebadiah the third, Jathniel the fourth,
3 Elam the fifth, Jehohanan the sixth, Elioenai the seventh.
4 Moreover the sons of Obededom were, Shemaiah the firstborn, Jehozabad the second, Joah the third, and Sacar the fourth, and Nethaneel the fifth.
5 Ammiel the sixth, Issachar the seventh, Peulthai the eighth: for God blessed him.
6 Also unto Shemaiah his son were sons born, that ruled throughout the house of their father: for they were mighty men of valour.
7 The sons of Shemaiah; Othni, and Rephael, and Obed, Elzabad, whose brethren were strong men, Elihu, and Semachiah.
8 All these of the sons of Obededom: they and their sons and their brethren, able men for strength for the service, were threescore and two of Obededom.

There are other modern versions, such as the Living Bible and Good News Translation, which are paraphrases, which mistranslate
שׁוֺעֵר as "temple guards" instead of gatekeepers.  The Message paraphrases the word as "teams of security guards"!!!  Verse 12 in The Message reads:

"These teams of security guards, supervised by their leaders, kept order in The Temple of God, keeping up the traditions of their ancestors."

What does "keeping up the traditions of their ancestors" mean?  Their ancestors' pagan traditions?  The proper translation of the last phrase is "to minister in the house of the Lord":

"Among these were the divisions of the porters, even among the chief men, having wards one against another, to minister in the house of the Lord." (KJV)

So it looks like the churches are becoming armed camps and some modern translations are conditioning their readers to accept this fact.  My former colleague had a friend who moved to Rochester NY and started attending a Baptist church.  One day she had lunch with the pastor's wife who told her she always carried a gun, and then she took it out of her purse to show it to her!  I wonder how many Baptist and other MacArthur-affiliated churches have an armed "Temple Guard" and the members don't know it.
bjw

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Reply with quote  #4 
Sounds like more of them following the third list that says to "defend and guard" their gospel. I had never heard the thugs called temple guards before though, it is an interesting choice of words, and also interesting is the fact some of the new age translations use that phrase.

Note also how MacArthur, even while lying to you, tried to come across as the final authority on everything. You were smart to leave when you did. As a word of warning to everyone else fighting this cult, always take threats from them seriously, as they do have the resources to make good on them, including legal, political, law enforcement , private detectives, and big money contributors. It is a very elaborate organization with a pyramid shaped structure, and those closest to the top follow an "end justifies the means" philosophy.
watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #5 
1 Chronicles 26 is translated "porters" in the King James Bible and is translated "Temple Guard" in the Contemporary English Version and then translated "Security Guards" and "Teams of Security Guards" in the Message translation.  The churches certainly are becoming armed camps and it's clear that the modern translations are conditioning their readers to accept this fact.

But why are the churches becoming armed camps?  We know that in this "new way of doing church," the church of the 21st century is partnering with the business and government sectors.   And we see that church members are now volunteer laborers doing a variety of social works and tasks which were previously done by men working in the government and business sectors.  Building housing, feeding the poor, removing graffiti, public school and heath care work are just some of the jobs now being fulfilled by church members.  And the grand plan for the New Church calls for it to penetrate "all spheres of society" with "kingdom works." 

With this and with the Temple Guard (police and military) in mind, I wonder if the New Church will one day be enforcing the New Laws to come.  And I wonder if the New Communitarian Church will one day be judging and punishing those who have broken the New Laws. 

Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself, but is it that far-fetched to think that in addition to a Temple Guard, we may one day also see a court of justice and a jail on the New Church grounds?




bjw

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Reply with quote  #6 
You make an interesting point here, and it is scary to think this could be a part of the new world order agenda. People are being condiitioned now to think nothing of church guards roughing up or making threats at visitors, what could be the next step? I can imagine many people were good before they were suckered into going to this church, and before they were put in a position of power they never thought they would be doing the harsh things they do now. Throughout history, mind control has made people do some crazy things. What scares me is I have known people who had no problem breaking the law or hurting people as long as it is helping this cult, and they will keep pushing the envelope to see what they can get away with.
watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #7 
Law Enforcement Appreciation Day

Many, if not all, of John Macarthur's Temple Guard have a police or military background.  With that in mind, it's of interest that Grace Community Church just set aside 2/19/2015 as Law Enforcement Appreciation Day.

According to the Grace Community Church website:

“Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God…for it is a minister of God to you for good” (Romans 13:1–2, 4).

The apostle Paul wrote these words to the church in Rome around AD 56, while they were under the authority of the emperor Nero, who is infamous for being one of the cruelest Roman emperors. Eight years later, as Nero was launching a citywide persecution of Christians, Peter was in Rome and echoed Paul’s words when he wrote, “Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human institution” (1 Peter 2:13). By God’s grace we live in a different era, with freedoms previously unavailable to most generations, but we are called to the same level of submission to the government as the early Christians.

The Bible identifies three major institutions we are to honor—the family, the church, and the government. We respect these institutions because God established them, and we recognize their primary role in the very existence of civilization. Imagine a world where the law was not enforced. It would quickly become like the era of the Judges, when “Everyone did what was right in his own eyes” (Judges 17:6).

Law enforcement officers are committed to our protection, but it is often a thankless job. Appointed by God as authorities to restrain evil in the world today, police officers deserve our submission, respect, and gratitude. But, as we have all witnessed in the news over the past several months, it seems the focus has shifted far from submission and respect, and instead borders on abuse.

For that reason Grace Community Church has set aside today as Law Enforcement Appreciation Day. It is our desire to honor the men and women who serve in law enforcement around Los Angeles for their commitment and assistance to our communities.

If you are a law enforcement officer and you are visiting this morning, thank you for putting your life on the line daily in extremely challenging situations. We appreciate and honor your service.

Last Updated: Feb 19, 2015, 12:13PM

watch-pray

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Why does Grace Community Church need a security team?  The Apostles and early churches were in constant danger but never had security guards.  And why are the GCC security guards called the "Temple" Guard”?  Is GCC a Jewish “temple”?  Are the guards Jewish?  

Remember the Baptist pastor's wife who carried a gun? That was about 8 years ago. Well, it seems that armed security guards were in Southern Baptist Church services well before then. (The SBC is a front for Freemasonry with close connections to John MacArthur.) The following 2008 CNN News article is about a SBC church in Louisville, KY which has a volunteer security force that carries concealed weapons in church services. Other churches with armed security are identified as well as a consulting company, Church Security Services, which advises churches to have volunteer security teams and retired or off-duty law enforcement officials with weapons in their worship services.

Armed guards keep watch over church services

Story Highlights
  • Churches nationwide turning to parishioners to join volunteer security teams
  • Many volunteers are retired and off-duty officers who carry concealed weapons
  • Congregants say the armed security presence provides peace of mind
  • Consultants encourage using armed guards who are trained in weapons handling
Excerpts from the article:

(CNN) -- Lori Davis remembers a time when the doors were always open at her church -- and not guarded.

"No one thought twice about their safety. I guess we took it for granted," said Davis.

"But things have changed. In an era when terrorism threats and deadly shootings at schools and churches have made headlines, religious leaders are rethinking their security strategies. Last Saturday, a minister was fatally shot and another man wounded outside of a church in Kentucky where the men went to attend a funeral.

"We live in a sinful world and people do crazy and irrational things," said Davis, a member of the Highview Baptist Church in Louisville, Kentucky.

"Such violence has houses of worship evolving from the days of walkie-talkies and video surveillance to armed guards, who keep a watchful eye over worship services and church.

""I'm much more comfortable knowing they're there if needed rather than just hoping for the best," Davis said.

"Highview also has a medical team on the grounds during weekend services, when thousands of people pass through its doors.

"Highview, like a number of other churches nationwide, has a volunteer security force consisting of at least one armed guard during any given worship service...

"Every member of the security team, from ushers to medics and armed guards, receives some kind of training related to their post, be it conflict management or anti-terrorism tactics.

"We realized that, as the largest Baptist church in Kentucky, we'd be a little naïve to think something would never happen to us," said Highview Pastor Randy Record, who is also a police officer. "We're catching up in an era of terrorism and a church is no different."

Excuse me, but the "church is no different"? What about being the salt of the earth and light to a lost world?

"In the past five years, business has consistently "picked up" for Dale Annis, founder of Church Security Services, a consulting company that advises houses of worship on security strategies...

"In states where people are allowed to carry concealed weapons, volunteers have become a cost-effective means of providing the security that some churches have come to rely on, Annis said.

"Safety consultants stress the importance of using volunteers who are trained in armed confrontations, such as retired or off-duty law enforcement officials, to ensure that firearms are used as a means of last resort.

"'I want churches to consider heavily the burden of responsibility of protecting people,' said Glen Evans, a consultant who also is a member of the safety team at his church in Centerville, Ohio. 'If you have people using guns, they need to be trained to know when to use them.'

"The leadership at the Lincoln Berean Church in Nebraska recently hired an off-duty police officer to complement its security team as an armed presence during major events.

"The church already has a volunteer staff whose job is to serve as both a "welcoming presence" and extra "eyes and ears" during hours of operation.

"Jeff Petersen, a pastor at Lincoln Berean, said the church began considering armed security members after a gunman in Colorado last year killed four people and wounded five at two churches. In that case, a volunteer security officer with law enforcement experience fired on the gunman and stopped the attack, according to authorities. The gunman later died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound, police said..."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/06/church.security/index.html

Sorry, but I don't believe that these armed security teams are in place to protect the congregation from armed gunmen or terrorist attacks. Even if that were the case, where does the Bible say to shoot sinners? Jesus said, "But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." Matt. 5:23 

Something else is going on with these church security guards, of which I hope to write more shortly.

watch-pray

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There is compelling evidence which lends support to Watchmanwakes’ suspicion that courts of law will be set up in the churches. In 1991, the US Congress voted the Orthodox Jewish Noahide Laws into Public Law 102—14 (H.J. Res. 104).  These draconian Talmudic laws will one day be rigidly enforced by the restored Sanhedrin in Israel which will oversee “regional sanhedrins” in the USA and throughout the world.

The Noachide Laws — The Encyclopedia of Judaism

(1) Civil justice [the duty to establish a legal system];
(2) Prohibition of blasphemy [which includes the bearing of false witness];
(3) The abandonment of idolatry;
(4) The prohibition of incest [including adultery and other sexual offenses];
(5) The prohibition of murder;
(6) Also that of theft;
(7) The law against eating flesh [a limb] cut from a living animal [ie., cruelty in any shape or form] (T.B. Sanh. 56A)

The Talmud Babylonia (T.B.) also states the penalty for disobedience: "One additional element of greater severity is that violation of any one of the seven laws subjects the Noahide to capital punishment by decapitation. (Sanh. 57A)

The Jewish Encyclopedia states that a Noahide (Gentile) can be convicted and decapitated on the basis of the testimony of only one witness:

“In the elaboration of these seven Noachian laws, and in assigning punishments for their transgression, the Rabbis are sometimes more lenient and sometimes more rigorous with Noachidæ than with Israelites. With but a few exceptions, the punishment meted out to a Noachid for the transgression of any of the seven laws is decapitation, the least painful of the four modes of execution of criminals (see Capital Punishment). The many formalities of procedure essential when the accused is an Israelite need not be observed in the case of the Noachid. The latter may be convicted on the testimony of one witness, even on that of relatives, but not on that of a woman. He need have had no warning ("hatra'ah") from the witnesses; and a single judge may pass sentence on him (ib. 57a, b; "Yad," l.c. ix. 14). With regard to idolatry, he can be found guilty only if he worshiped an idol in the regular form in which that particular deity is usually worshiped; while in the case of blasphemy he may be found guilty, even when he has blasphemed with one of the attributes of God's name—an action which, if committed by an Israelite, would not be regarded as criminal (ib. 56b; see Blasphemy).”

During the Tribulation period, those who worship Jesus Christ and refuse to receive the mark of the false Messiah (Beast) will be beheaded, per the Noahide Laws.  See also Rev. 20:4: "...and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands..."

The basis for the Noahide Laws is the Code of Jewish Law called the Shulchan Aruch. This body of law was written in the 16th century by Rabbi Yosef Karo, a Kabbalist who received his revelation from an angel. The Shulchan Aruch has historically been studied by Rabbinical students in Jewish yeshivas in preparation for ordination. However, the Shema Yisrael Torah Network now offers a course on the Shulchan Aruch for anyone who wishes to understand Jewish law, with special attention to the Noahide Laws:

The Shema Yisrael Torah Network, through Yeshiva Pirchei Shoshanim its educational partner, has opened up to the world a commentary on the code of Jewish law [the Shulchan Aruch] which was difficult for many scholars to understand and master let alone others who do not have a background in Jewish Law let alone a mastery of the Hebrew Language written in its cryptic format. After 500 years, thousands throughout the world have access to understand the code of JEWISH LAW in English, Hebrew and Spanish.” 

Yeshiva Pirchei Shoshanim presents an “authoritative study of the entire corpus of Torah literature pertaining to the Noahide laws… Our goal is two-fold: 1) to produce a halachic resource for the Rabbinic world and, 2) to produce a practical guide to Noahide observance and belief for the non-Jewish world… The proposed course will last approximately six months and cover both the theology and law provided by the Torah for the Noahide. ”

Albert Mackey, who was Secretary General of the Supreme Council of Scottish Rite Freemasonry for the Southern Jurisdiction of the U.S., wrote of the obligation of every Jew to enforce the Noahide laws:

"These seven obligations...are held binding on all men, inasmuch as all are descendants of Noah, and the Rabbins maintain that he who observes them, though he not be an Israelite, has a share in the future life, and it is the duty of every Jew to enforce their due observance wherever he has the power to do so." (History of Freemasonry, p. 409)

The Shulchan Aruch or Code of Jewish Law is also a required course of study in Messianic Jewish institutions. The Union of Conservative Messianic Jewish Synagogues requires, “Formal Yeshiva Training which must include: Torah, Talmud, Shulkan Aruch, Jewish History, Jewish Thought, and Jewish Lifestyle.” 

John MacArthur’s spiritual mentor was a Messianic Jewish rabbi, the late Charles Feinberg. The Charles L. Feinberg Center for training Messianic Jewish leaders requires the same curriculum of study as yeshivas which train Jewish rabbis. Among the requirements is an “intensive study of Jewish law” :

“The Charles L. Feinberg Center is an accredited Master of Divinity program in Messianic Jewish Studies. The program is designed to train those with a call to full-time Jewish ministry as Messianic congregational leaders, outreach workers or educators.

“These unique training needs are the focus of a program emphasizing biblical languages, Hebrew and Greek exegesis, and the understanding of rabbinic texts. Essential matters of theology and practice are treated through intensive study of Jewish law, religion, culture, sociology and history.

“Students are encouraged to explore this rich heritage, and to develop effective methods to reach and serve today's Jewish community…

“Opportunities to attend lectures and cultural events, and take classes at Jewish institutions in Southern California and New York.”

The hidden agenda of Talmudic Judaism and Messianic Judaism is to rewrite the history of Christianity and teachings of Jesus in order to reimage Jesus as the false Messiah of Rabbinical Talmudic Judaism (“Yeshua”), a messiah more acceptable to the Jews. Whereas “grace and truth came by Jesus Christ” (John 1:17), “Yeshua” will teach and uphold the corpus of Rabbinic, Talmudic, Noahide laws, falsely called “Torah.”

Theosophist Alice Bailey foretold that, in the New Age, the cults, churches and Masonic lodges will be centers for initiating the masses into the “new universal religion” of “the Christ.” She wrote:
 
“In the esoteric group, which is composed of the true spiritual esotericists found in all exoteric occult groups, in the church, by whatever name it may be called, and in Masonry you have the three paths leading to initiation. As yet they are not used, and one of the things that will eventuate—when the new universal religion has sway and the nature of esotericism is understood—will be the utilisation of the banded esoteric organisms, the Masonic organism and the Church organism as initiating centres...

“The Mysteries will be restored to outer expression through the medium of the Church and the Masonic Fraternity... When the Great One comes with His disciples and initiates we shall have...the restoration of the Mysteries and their exoteric presentation, as a consequence of the first initiation... the Christ...is the Hierophant of the first and second initiations and He will, if the preparatory work is faithfully and well done, administer the first initiation in the inner sanctuaries of those two bodies...

“Thus a great and new movement is proceeding and a tremendously increased interplay and interaction is taking place. This will go on until A.D. 2025. During the years intervening between now and then very great changes will be seen taking place, and at the great General Assembly of the Hierarchy—held as usual every century—in 2025 the date in all probability will be set for the first stage of the externalisation of the Hierarchy.

“The present cycle (from now until that date) is called technically 'The Stage of the Forerunner'. It is preparatory in nature, testing in its methods, and intended to be revelatory in its techniques and results. You can see therefore that Chohans, Masters, initiates, world disciples, disciples and aspirants affiliated with the Hierarchy are all at this time passing through a cycle of great activity.” (Externalisation of the Hierarchy)

The “Spiritual Hierarchy” is the demonic Merovingian bloodline which will produce the false Christ and of which John MacArthur is a descendant.  The “Chohans” are the Ascended Masters of the Hierarchy. The “Masters, initiates, world disciples, disciples and aspirants affiliated with the Hierarchy” who are “all at this time passing through a cycle of great activity” could easily describe The Masters College and The Masters Seminary where John MacArthur and “Master Masons” are preparing the next generation to transform the churches into initiation centers for worship of the Beast and reception of his mark.

Given the Tribulation scenario of a false Christ and demonic hierarchy ruling over the apostate churches, it is entirely conceivable that those who worship Jesus Christ and refuse to take the Luciferic initiation and mark of the Beast will be arrested as heretics, tried in church tribunals and put to death. Church tribunals have happened before . . . during the Inquisition (Roman Catholic Church) and the Reformation (John Calvin).  In 2002, when the Chief Rabbi of Rome addressed the Vatican regarding the Noahide Laws, he reiterated “the obligation to form tribunals.”

For more background on the Noahide Laws and their implementation during the Tribulation period, I recommend reading the following articles:

Under the Law: The Noahide Laws
The House of God on Trial
The Once & Future Clan MacArthur
John MacArthur & Freemasonry
Heeding Bible Prophecy: New Government
watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #10 
John Macarthur has been teaching for quite some time that it's essentially OK for one to take the mark of the Beast because he claims one can still be redeemed after taking the mark.  And at his annual Camp Regen, which is the Druid/Wiccan Festival of Lughnasadh, John Macarthur is already conditioning young church members for an occult initiation and reception of the mark of the Beast.   And during a recent forum at The Masters College co-hosted with the American Enterprise Institute, an interest was expressed to change the U.S. court system.  According to Jack Cox of The Masters College:

"Forum attendees included members of the state legislature, judges, representatives from the County of Los Angeles as well as church and business leaders.  They concluded the forum by asking questions on such issues as the role of a Christian in politics, the balance of separation of church and state and reformation of the U.S. court system." 

By the way, few know that John Macarthur has created The Masters Institute on Public Issues to "shape the future of public policy in the U.S.."



 
bjw

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I wanted to add a few thoughts to the last two posts. These things are not much of a leap when you consider much of lordship doctrine is a mix of 19th century gnosticism, 1960s era counseling cults, and calvinistic predestination. Combining these three allows for a much different view of Jesus and the Atonement when compared to the rest of Christianity and is a much more humanistic approach with a less spiritual and more humanistic religion. I think you are right in a sense that it is a way to gradually ween Christians further away from Christ with a frog in boiling water effect.

Further, not only was MacArthur mentored by a rabbi, but Ibex has classes taught by rabbis, so that could also be a part of leading Christians to Judaism. The acceptance of these Noahide laws may well be preparing us so they can be enforced if the current legal system breaks down and emergency laws become passed. This could be why Fema likes to use churches as emergency training centers, and I've heard some say they are training religious leaders on this.

I knew back when I was in that GCC had strong law enforcement and political ties, but back then it was kept heavily under wraps. It scares me that they are being this open about it now. Do a google search on L. Ron Hubbard's "Project Normandy" paper and you'll see what I mean, and Hubbard did not have control of nowhere near the number of minds Lordship Salvation does now.

Also, compare the system of Noahide laws conviction of a person with witnesses to the Restoration Process doctrine. Scary.
watch-pray

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
And during a recent forum at The Masters College co-hosted with the American Enterprise Institute, an interest was expressed to change the U.S. court system.  According to Jack Cox of The Masters College:

"Forum attendees included members of the state legislature, judges, representatives from the County of Los Angeles as well as church and business leaders.  They concluded the forum by asking questions on such issues as the role of a Christian in politics, the balance of separation of church and state and reformation of the U.S. court system."


This is a relevant point. When they speak of "reforming the court system" it will be to implement the Noahide Laws. Like Arthur Brooks, Roy Moore has been a speaker at the Council for National Policy, which was founded by members of the liberal, globalist Council on Foreign Relations.  Roy Moore is the controversial Alabama Supreme Court Chief Justice who has for many years advocated for a theocratic form of government -- that America return to its Christian foundations and be governed by the Ten Commandments.  However, reforming the US court system will not bring about a Christian theocracy that will enforce the 10 commandments but rather the 7 Noahide laws under the Jewish Sanhedrin.
Three of the U.S. Supreme Court Justices are Jewish: Ruth Bader Ginsberg, Stephen Breyer and Elena Kagan. Six Justices are Roman Catholics (Roberts, Scalia, Kennedy, Thomas, Alito, Sotomayer) and are members of Opus Dei, the Pope's personal prelature which is a front for Talmudic Judaism.  All of the justices will follow the dictates of the Sanhedrin in Jerusalem.

For more info on the Supreme Court and Opus Dei and the future Dominionist theocracy:

http://watch-unto-prayer.org/new-reformation.html
bjw

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Reply with quote  #13 
Once this reformation of the legal system takes place, those indoctrinated into Lordship Salvation will accept this with open arms, since the restoration process is nothing but a merging of synagogue law with 5 verses of Matthew 18 taken out of context.

The link you post has some good info, but as it relates to MacArthur it's worth mentioning MacArthur parts company with Calvinism when it comes to the preterist issue. In fact, at one point MacArthur threatened employees with firings who came out of reformed churches if they still believed this way. This could have something to do with his view of Jerusalem's role in prophecy.
watch-pray

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Reply with quote  #14 
Yes, MacArthur is only dispensational in his eschatology; his soteriology is salvation by works. Besides promoting Zionism, I believe Mac's dispensational eschatology is bait to lure unsuspecting fundamentalists into the Reformed camp. (BJW, Were you aware of his Lordship salvation before you attended TMC??) MacArthur is also converting many to Reformed doctrine by misrepresenting dispensationalism and dispensationalists as antinomians. And by fellowshipping and sharing platforms exclusively with Covenant theologians, MacArthur is promoting their Calvinist doctrine.

There is an excellent expose of MacArthur's muddled theology which shows his contempt for dispensationalism, which he misrepresents as teaching ‘easy-believism’. He is quoted saying that the only biblical part of dispensationalism is its recognition of God's promise to restore Israel and the only unbiblical part of Reformed theology is their amillennial eschatology which teaches that God is through with Israel:

"The earliest and most foundational and helpful comprehension of dispensationalism was: ‘That the Bible taught a unique place for Israel and that the Church could not fulfill God's promises to Israel, therefore, there is a still a future and a kingdom involving the salvation and the restoration and the reign of the nation Israel (historical Jews).’...

"So my dispensationalism, if you want to use that term, is only that which can be defended exegetically or expositionally out of the Scripture, and by a simple clear interpretation of the Old Testament--it is obvious God promised a future kingdom to Israel. And when somebody comes along and says all the promises of the kingdom to Israel are fulfilled in the Church, the burden of proof is not on me, it's on them. The simplest way that I would answer someone, who is what is called an ‘amillennialist,’ or a ‘Covenant Theologian’ that is, believing that there is one covenant and the Church is the new Israel, and Israel is gone, and there is no future for Israel--an amillennialism, meaning there is no kingdom for Israel; there is no future Millennial kingdom." (John MacArthur)

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/dispen/jmacdis.htm

MacArthur's mixed bag of theology is actually custom made for the Tribulation period: Israel in the land with the true Church gone and the Gentiles "slaves" under Jewish rule by Talmudic law. Once the Zionist Jews possess Eretz Israel [from the Euphrates to the Nile] and establish their world government, those ‘easy-believing’ dispensationalists will be in heaven and the world will be slaves of the false messiah under the Noahide Laws.
bjw

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Reply with quote  #15 
To answer your question, no, I was not aware of Lordship Salvation when I signed up to go to tmc, and this is quite common. The idea is to use the college as a tool to convert you through aggressive peer pressure once you are there. Some are aware, but they are mostly the bible majors or kids raised in the cult. The recruiter told me MacArthur was pastor of a large church, but that it was non-denominational and Christians from all denominations were represented at the college. The internet was still in it's infancy, and the information was not available so easily the way it is now. So, it was much easier to lie to people back then.

I knew something was wrong about it in my first few weeks and I called my dad about what I was seeing so he researched it, especially with his friend Bob George who had a ministry at the time, and that is how I discovered what Lordship Salvation was for the first time. It is hidden from you at first. They would tell me things like I probably believe the way they do, but just express it differently, so they break the true beliefs to you slowly. Many don't understand why I stayed in for two years, and it is hard to explain unless you have experienced cult mind control before. It is not as easy as getting up one day and leaving. I had to go through several months of therapy after leaving because a really strong "what if" nags at you and they convince you that you may be going to hell.

You are correct that MacArthur teaches all non-lordship churches teach "cheap grace " or "easy believism. " Also, they call amillenialism or covenant theology a cancer to the church. When my roomate was about to be fired for believing this way, I remember we went to see Macarthur so he could beg to keep his job. MacArthur told him he could provided he read the notes in the study bible on the book of Revelations, because he was certain he would see the truth after reading that. The fact people can't see this proves they are not non-denominational is beyond me. I had one wow staffer tell me anyone amil is lost because MacArthur is premil and has the Holy Ghost, and two people with the Spirit will not have conflicting opinions. This is the extent of the mind control.

I often wondered why MacArthur emphasizes Israel so much, after reading this it makes much more sense. Let's just hope people will learn this and get out while they still can.
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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Also, they call amillenialism or covenant theology a cancer to the church. When my roomate was about to be fired for believing this way, I remember we went to see Macarthur so he could beg to keep his job. MacArthur told him he could provided he read the notes in the study bible on the book of Revelations, because he was certain he would see the truth after reading that. The fact people can't see this proves they are not non-denominational is beyond me. I had one wow staffer tell me anyone amil is lost because MacArthur is premil and has the Holy Ghost, and two people with the Spirit will not have conflicting opinions. This is the extent of the mind control.


The extent of the mind control here is truly astonishing.  MacArthur will fire a person for having Amillennial eschatology, but he himself co-founded
Together for the Gospel with Amillennialists, and he only speaks at Amillennialist conferences and he invites only Amillennialists to speak at his conferences.  The TMS Shepherd's Conference in session this week features Steve Lawson, Al Mohler, Ligon Duncan, Mark Dever, R.C. Sproul, and Sinclair Ferguson, and other speakers ... all Amillennialists.
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Reply with quote  #17 
I remember there were reformed theologians who had to eat at their own table in the cafeteria for awhile because people kept shunning them. Reformed theologians were being attracted to the college not knowing MacArthur was this dogmatic about eschatology. I enjoyed eating with them at times just hearing them explain to me what it was about their beliefs that were different. I went to a Reformed high school so I was somewhat familiar with it, but it was interesting to learn more about it, even if I didn't agree with it.

MacArthur did 3 chapel sessions with himself, Will Varner (MacArthur's expert in Jewish studies), and Charles Warren "CW" Smith (now deceased lordship author and professor who the Smith dorm was named after) that consisted of talks on why a proper view of eschatology was so important. This was how worried MacArthur became about this issue, and I heard the only employees not affected were in non-theological departments. For example, one English professor was a Presbyterian. This chapel week caused many reformed students to transfer to other colleges after that semester.

MacArthur has went against friends on other issues before. For example, as much as he puts down the charismatics he still had a steak dinner once per month with Jack Hayford. He has also had friendly meetings with Mormon theologian Robert Millett. I know he has debated Sproul on ect and infant baptism issues before. So, as you can see, he is somewhat double minded.
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Reply with quote  #18 
John MacArthur gives the following account of a trip he made to Jerusalem with his mentor, Charles Feinberg. I think it is very revealing.

Quote:
I remember when I was in Jerusalem one time and we were in the convention center, right near the Knesset in Jerusalem, and I was there with Dr. Charles Feinberg, who was the keynote speaker, and David Ben-Gurion was there, who was the Premier of the Land of Israel at that time, and Teddy Kalik (sp.) who was the mayor of Jerusalem. We were sitting on the platform and an amillennialist had come to speak, it was the Jerusalem conference on prophecy, it was a tremendous event, and it was an amillennialist who got up to speak and he made the great announcement to David Ben-Gurion and to some of the Knesset members, and the mayor of Jerusalem, and all these Jewish dignitaries as well as the three thousand people that were there, that the promises to Israel in the Old Testament were being fulfilled in the Church. Now it is one thing to say that, but you don't need to take a trip to Jerusalem to say that. There would be no kingdom . . . he preached on Isaiah 9:6, "The government will be upon His shoulders" (9:6ff), and he said that means the government of your life, and he's talking about personal conversion here and so on and so forth. Well, I remember when that message was done, and I sat through it with Dr. Feinberg--Dr. Feinberg was, to put it mildly, "upset." And his opening line, because he gave the next address, was, "So we have come all the way to Jerusalem to tell you that you get all the curses but the Gentile Church gets all the blessings." And then he launched into a message about the promises of God.

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/dispen/jmacdis.htm


So Charles Feinberg and John MacArthur were "upset" because the Amillennialist preached a message about "personal conversion" to David Ben Gurion, who was the first Prime Minister of Israel, Teddy Kollek, the Mayor of Jerusalem, members of the Knesset and 3,000 Jewish people at the Jerusalem prophecy conference.  They were upset because the gospel was presented to these lost Jews instead of God's promises of a kingdom to Israel. Then Rabbi Feinberg rudely contradicted the Amillennialist and told the Jews they could have their kingdom without personal conversion to Jesus Christ?!

This speaks volumes about John MacArthur's view of the gospel. He and Feinberg were only interested in advancing the political agenda of the Zionists, but not the gospel of Jesus Christ. MacArthur and Feinberg would have been upset with the apostle Peter who preached Jesus Christ to the Jews in Jerusalem... and there were 3,000 converts! Might this have been the outcome if Rabbi Feinberg and John MacArthur had joined the Amillennialist in preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ to those 3,000 Jews in Jerusalem?
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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by watch-pray
The extent of the mind control here is truly astonishing.  MacArthur will fire a person for having Amillennial eschatology, but he himself co-founded Together for the Gospel with Amillennialists, and he only speaks at Amillennialist conferences and he invites only Amillennialists to speak at his conferences.  The TMS Shepherd's Conference in session this week features Steve Lawson, Al Mohler, Ligon Duncan, Mark Dever, R.C. Sproul, and Sinclair Ferguson, and other speakers ... all Amillennialists.


Amillennialism is unscriptural.  Why do all these prominent men featured at Macarthur's Shepherds' Conference put forth this view?
bjw

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Reply with quote  #20 
You both bring up good points. The fact they were preaching these people were saved through their bloodline further shows how their view of salvation takes Christ out of the equation.

As for why all these unscriptural teachers are intermingled with MacArthur, I think Macarthur tries to give lordship salvation an air of legitimacy by trying to show it as just another variant of reformed theology. He knows he would lose a ton of money if more knew it was a counseling cult. See, the material sold to the public at large sounds like typical evangelical Christianity, which is why so many are quick to go on forums and defend MacArthur. It's not until you are a member, student, or have purchased some more of the advanced reference materials that you see how different from Christianity it really is. It is structured like an onion with the Christian parts on the outer layer.
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Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by watch-pray

Why does Grace Community Church need a security team?  The Apostles and early churches were in constant danger but never had security guards.  And why are the GCC security guards called the "Temple" Guard”?  Is GCC a Jewish “temple”?  Are the guards Jewish?  



According to The Roy Rogers Masonic Connection, Roy Rogers was a Master Mason when John Macarthur's father baptized him in 1948 and Rogers was a 32nd degree Mason and Shriner in 1952 when Jack Macarthur was his friend frequently visiting his home.  Roy Rogers was a member of the Al Malaikah Shrine Temple in Los Angeles. 

The Al Malaikah Shrine Temple website under the title "Al Malaikah Units" lists the Shrine as having both a Temple Guard and a Temple Patrol.  We know John Macarthur's church has a Temple Guard and it's also known that John Macarthur has armed guards escorting and protecting him even when he is away from his church.  According to the Al Malaikah website and regarding its Temple Patrol (called Sahara Patrol):

"Al Malaikah Patrol was the first Unit formed in 1899.  This Unit is the personal escort for the Potentate and accompanies him to all functions including his official visitations, parades, conferences and conventions."

Could these armed guards escorting Macarthur be his Temple Patrol?  Now since we believe Macarthur is a Freemason and we know his church has a Temple Guard, it makes me wonder if Grace Community Church is a Masonic Lodge. 


bjw

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Reply with quote  #22 
I think this is part of him seeing himself as a fulfillment of prophecy. Masons have teachings about rebuilding the temple so this makes sense, and lends credence to him having a god complex. If all of Christianity is teaching "cheap grace " and has watered down salvation, then the restorer of the true doctrines requires a temple guard to aid in his "rebuilding " of the temple, and to provide the protection in the third list of "Genuine Saving Faith. "
kr2726

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Reply with quote  #23 
I am not a fan of Johnny Mac, nor of any of his minions.  I'm the lady in the powerchair who was kicked out of Travis Allen's car (he organized the Strange Fire conference, and is now new pastor the Grace church in Greeley (a college town.  And according to its website (www.gracegreeley.org), Grace church is now a "TMS Alumni church"), for my refusal to deny that Jesus came to me in an awesome dream in 1973.  It boggles my mind that throughout the Strange Fire CD's, Johnny Mac quotes the commands in 1 Thess. 5:20-21 and 1 John 4:1, and establishes 5 criteria to judga all "extrabiblical" revelations (and truthfully, this dream the Lord gave me was explained to me BY SCRIPTURE--you can find it on http://www.googleplus.com. Put Karen Reid and My Intercessor in the search bar.  I posted it with Selah's song, "Before the Throne of God Above," as that's what I saw Jesus doing on the arch-shaped bridge--He was interceding for me, which I only understood after I read more of the Bible.  

I should state here that Travis Allen (the new pastor of Grace church in Greeley) also has a history of law enforcement. But at any rate, their last pastor was fired because he was difficult to work with!  (That was one of the reasons they fired him).  I am praying now that the Lord protects the kids in Grace church from John MacArthur, but I must say this.  

While I know it was wrong for JM's minions to threaten Bob Johnson with arrest for passing out flyers, etc., I have to say about their "Temple Guards" being armed.  It's a different world than in Jesus' day.  Satan is attacking mass gatherings in a way he never did before, and mass shootings are common place, so I agree with the decision to arm their guards.  
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Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kr2726
  Satan is attacking mass gatherings in a way he never did before, and mass shootings are common place, so I agree with the decision to arm their guards.  


Hi kr2726.  Nice to hear from you again.  Jesus might respond to your quote above: O ye of little faith...

So if someone comes with a gun to rob the church's collection plate or to kill Christians, then you are proposing that the armed guards should shoot them? 

I remember hearing a story about a church in the Philippines of about 50 people.  One Sunday a man, I believe a Moslem, showed up with a machine gun and told the church members that if they were there the next Sunday, they would all be killed.  The next Sunday all the Christians showed up to church early and while the man and his 3 friends were driving in a jeep to the church to kill the Christians, the jeep overturned and all four were killed.  Now I have no doubt that Macarthur would have had his police/military strategically positioned at his church with rifles ready. 

'Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.'  


jasonc65

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Reply with quote  #25 
I came here to get discernment about the MacArthur cult. But I am confused by contradictory information.

1) MacArthur is antisemite or he is not. Either/or fallacy, I know. But it is very confusing to hear both that MacArthur hates Jews and is part of a Jewish conspiracy.

2) MacArthur teaches Lordship but is part of a conspiracy to make it illegal to call Jesus Lord.

I do not know what to make of this. I came here for discernment, not fearmongering, confusion and hysteria.

I can make out that:
MacArthur popularized Lordship.
Lordship, better known as Loadship, is the subtle addition of works to the gospel.
The gospel is that sinners are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Jesus alone, who is fully human and fully God, died on the cross to pay the penalty, and rose from the dead, as his burial and appearances testify.
Jesus is Lord, but submission to his Lordship as demonstrated by obedience is not a requirement for salvation. There is such a thing as a carnal Christian.
MacArthur is not only a heretic but leads a sinister brainwashing cult.
MacArthur is connected to wickedness in high places.
MacArthur has taught many other heresies besides Lordship.
MacArthur is full of contradictions.
MacArthur once wrote a commentary on Jude that warned me of precisely the type of man that he is. It was called "Beware the Pretenders".
There may be individual Jews involved in wickedness in high places, but Jewish conspiracy theories are of antisemitic origin.
The Protocols are a hoax.
The Holocaust was real.
Jews need Jesus.
Jews need to believe the same gospel. It is not faith alone for one group and faith plus Moses for another.

Lordship has a long history, going back to the first century Judaizers. It is what Roman Catholicism has taught all along. It permeates the modern Christian lingo. Asking Jesus into your heart is one of Lordship's catchphrases and is nowhere in scripture. To get discernment on Lordship, I have gone to expreacherman.com and redeemingmoments.com.

watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #26 
jasonc65,

I've been looking into John Macarthur for some time and I haven't seen or heard that he hates Jews.  I also haven't seen that he is part of a conspiracy to make it illegal to call Jesus Lord.  Macarthur does teach a works-based gospel which has been labeled "Lordship Salvation" by his critics. 

You don't believe in "Jewish conspiracy theories?"  The evidence shows that "Jews" have conspired to create a world government which will be ruled by their world leader (the Antichrist) from modern Israel. 
bjw

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Reply with quote  #27 

Jason, regarding your two statements:
1. MacArthur has never claimed to be an antisemite. He has a Jew named Will Varner in a high position in the organization, who has written many books on Jewish theology. MacArthur also has a campus in Israel called Ibex. What you may be thinking of as antisemetic may be the statement he made several years ago about obeying government authorities, even if its Hitler, Stalin, etc. I heard GCC later backpedaled on this claiming MacArthur was taken out of context after the church was protested. Maybe someone on here knows more.

2. Lordship Salvation is a tautology based on a strawman that anyone who is not part of their lordship belief system does not obey God's commandments, thus not accepting Christ as Lord. The teachers they quote are either on the extreme fringe of Christianity or taken out of context.

It is not really about recognizing Jesus as Lord but is a totalitarian organizational structure that uses various mind control techniques to make slaves out of its followers. The introductory material accuses others of not recognizing Jesus as Lord as a way to isolate the person from recognizing other ministries as Christian. Once this is used on you as bait they then hope you will doubt any previous commitment to salvation you may have had and make a "lordship" commitment. I used to hear people in the organization say all the time that they were never really saved until they realized they must be obedient. Most Christianity traditions teach works are an outflow of the Spirit once you are saved, not evidence to show you have made a commitment that must keep growing constantly or others can say you are going to hell.

jasonc65

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Reply with quote  #28 
1) MacArthur has been exposed as saying that Jews, even converted Jews, should not have Jewish churches, while people of various nationalities can have their own assemblies. That definitely sounded racist. I admit that my words "hating Jews" were too strong. Should have said, "says hateful things about Jews".

2) Lordship salvation is a widespread misconception in Christendom, and it can easily slip in unnoticed in an otherwise sound church. MacArthur, however, is anything but. LS teaching has influenced my thoughts and words, and I have had to repent of that error.

@watchmanwakes, Jewish conspiracy theory has roots in antisemitism. The Protocols of the Elders of Zion were quoted on this network of sites, and the Protocols were a hoax invented by Russians and used by Hitler. According to theory, the Protocols call for a Jewish empire that places Gentiles under the Noahide laws. The Noahide laws are a real part of traditional Judaism, in which they are a way of practical salvation for Gentiles. And they form the basis of the Jesusalem compromise mentioned in Acts. According to theory, the Jewish world order will impose the Noahide laws and interpret the commandment against idolatry as forbidding Christianity. This would make it illegal to call Jesus Lord.

And of course you just said that Jews are conspiring to put in power the Antichrist. And the Antichrist will persecute Christians. So you are caught in a contradiction.

This conspiracy theory is a distraction, and Paul said such things are unprofitable. Focusing on these things is not advancing the cause of the gospel. I used a post by bjw on this forum as evidence on the Expreacherman site, because I thought they might be interested to know of the physical abuse. I find bjw's testimony credible. However, I could not endorse this site, and neither could they. They have made a point of avoiding politics in order to stay focused on the gospel. Instead, this site gets sidetracked with conspiracy theories. With that I dust my feet off.
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Reply with quote  #29 
jasonc65,

John Macarthur "says hateful things about Jews?"  Evidence shows Macarthur is a Jew.  He is also a Zionist.   

The Protocols are a hoax invented by Russians?  The Protocols come from the Jewish Talmud/Kabbalah.  Under the Jewish Noahide Laws all Christians will be beheaded. 

I've haven't been caught in any contradiction.  The Synagogue of Satan will soon place their world ruler who according to scripture is a Jew. 

I have no interest in conspiracy theories or in Jewish fables.  The purpose of this forum is to present facts that expose John Macarthur's ministry.      

bjw

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Reply with quote  #30 
I recommend going back through this website and reading the occult roots of lordship salvation.  It is not much of a stretch when you look at the money trail and financial backings, as well as how MacArthur denies the efficacy of the blood of Christ, eternal sonship of Christ, and celebrates the Druid festival of Lughnasadh.  Blavatsky and other occult writers predicted a "Master" would lead Christianity in the last days toward a new world order.

I do not believe watchman is antisemetic.  This is referring to what a group of Jews in a cult are trying to do to institute a globalist world order as in the book of Revelation, not that being born a Jew makes you inferior or cursed, which is what antisemitic people believe.  In this very thread it is mentioned where MacArthur told a group of Jews they were saved by their bloodline and don't need the Gospel message, in essence taking Christ out of the equation.

Also, not all posters here agree with each other on every detail.  Please re-read the site and think carefully before throwing the baby out with the bathwater over side issues.  Getting the word out about this destructive cult is important and may save lives.
jasonc65

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Reply with quote  #31 
bjw, I cannot find anything on this site about the roots of lordship salvation. It did not originate with MacArthur but was taught by the Catholic Church all along.

The statement that Jews don't need the gospel is clearly antisemitic. Revelation does not equate the Beast world order with the Synagogue of Satan. As you know from Daniel and Revelation 12, the Antichrist will himself be a Jew hater. Are the Jews that self-loathing?

The baby to be saved is the truth about MacArthur, and this Jewish conspiracy nonsense is the bathwater. I am throwing it out.
watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #32 
jasonc65,

The topic of this forum isn't Jewish world hegemony.  The topic is John Macarthur's cult.  This forum is to provide information and support to those who have been abused by this cult and to warn others away from this cult.  Feel free to throw out all the bathwater you want while you dust off your feet.
bjw

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Reply with quote  #33 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonc65
bjw, I cannot find anything on this site about the roots of lordship salvation. It did not originate with MacArthur but was taught by the Catholic Church all along.

I can. Here is a post from watchpray that highlights the occult/new age influence in "Slave."
http://johnmacarthur.forumchitchat.com/post/how-john-macarthur-stealthily-promotes-the-emergent-church-7407529?pid=1289571025

His denial of the efficacy of the blood of Christ as being only symbolic is a 19th century gnostic heresy, as explained here:
http://johnmacarthur.forumchitchat.com/post/evidence-that-john-macarthur-is-a-freemason-and-defending-the-king-james-bible-7222136?pid=1288457109

Here Watchman links to an article (3rd link down under MacArthur's video) that shows the blood of Christ doctrine is taken from Christian Science:
http://johnmacarthur.forumchitchat.com/post/internet-rumors-about-john-macarthur-7555106?pid=1289508044

In addition to a whole thread showing how the kids at their high school camp celebrate the Druid festival of Lugnasadh, they also hold a jazz concert under oak trees on the pagan holiday of Beltane, as was also in the thread.

The counseling doctrines borrow much from Scientology, as is documented in the thread about nouthetic counseling. Almost all of MacArthur's doctrines are taken from other cults.

Catholocism is legalistic, and MacArthur is able to get former Catholics to easily convert because of the similarities. However, "lordship salvation" is not the same thing as "legalism." Lordship doctrine is essentially slavery to an organization that strips you of all freedom and rights and makes you live a life of despair. I agree with watchmanwakes that we should be focusing on helping those that have been harmed by this cult, as this is the topic of the forum. We can have different opinions and still work together. The more people write in about their experiences is the more people will be helped. So please, think of people like Kenneth, Angelica, Natalie, and Paul before leaving altogether, you may be able to save lives.

jasonc65

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Reply with quote  #34 
bjw, it seems that we have different definitions. To me, lordship salvation means that I make Jesus lord of my life and repent of sins in order to obtain, keep, or prove my salvation, but this has nothing to do with a human organization. To me, this is heresy, as it distracts from the simplicity of the gospel. To you, lordship seems to entail obeying everything MacArthur commands, his evil connections notwithstanding. I agree that this is not merely heretical but connected with the occult.

In my life, I have had lordship influences coming from such sources as Armstrong, Wurmbrand, Hanegraaff, and various false friends telling me that faith works. And at one time, I actually thought MacArthur was sound. These influences gave me doubts, not strength. Wurmbrand's occult roots were obvious to me from the literature that I had read from him, yet it was hard to escape the conviction that this man had suffered for Christ. I have been exposed to quotes from Bonhoeffer calling God's grace cheap.

Lordship seems to have influenced the whole evangelical movement, including Graham, Warren, and to some extent even Stanley.

I once had a man from InterVarsity recommend me to a councillor, and I did not follow through.
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Reply with quote  #35 
Quote:
Originally Posted by watchmanwakes

Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself, but is it that far-fetched to think that in addition to a Temple Guard, we may one day also see a court of justice and a jail on the New Church grounds?


Will Macarthurite churches soon be getting their own police force?

Check out this article below: Briarwood Presbyterian Church and School Wants its own Police Force.
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Briarwood Presbyterian Church and school wants its own police department.

Sworn. Professional. Serious. I'm serious.

A bill advertised by the Alabama Messenger - fulfilling the requirement of all bills before they can be introduced in the Legislature - would allow Briarwood to "appoint and employ one or more persons to act as police officers to protect the safety and integrity of the church and its ministries."

Those persons  would be "charged with all of the duties and invested with all the powers of law enforcement in this state."

"The authority of any police officer appointed and employed pursuant to this section shall be restricted to the campuses and properties of Briarwood Presbyterian Church," it says.

Meaning that if passed, churchgoers or students or visitors anyone who sets foot on the grounds of Briarwood's Church or its school properties could be arrested by an officer of a private, non-profit company - a church to boot - that is appointed and hired by people who are not chosen at the ballot box.

Who do you call about police abuse? The preacher? The Principal? How does one contest a charge? Nobody knows, because this bill is unprecedented.

And way out there.

"Wow," said Jefferson County Sheriff's Department Chief Deputy Randy Christian. "I've never heard of a high school or a church starting their own police department."

But lawyer Eric Johnston, who advertised the bill for Briarwood, said Briarwood is unique because it has a church, a seminary, an elementary school and a high school. There is activity on the property almost 24 hours a day and a police force, he said, would be cheaper than hired security.

Other law enforcement agencies are, shall we say, skeptical.

"Wonder what judges, prosecutors, jail, court system they would use," Christian said.

Johnston said misdemeanor arrests would be turned over to the jurisdiction in which they occur. The main Briarwood church and elementary school is in Vestavia Hills in Jefferson County, while the high school is in Shelby.

These days, if an arrest occurs at a private school such as Briarwood, police or deputies in that jurisdiction  make a report, which ostensibly becomes a public record - with all the checks and balances that brings.

But the questions of a private church police force are staggering. This is unprecedented.

Think about it. If this bill is passed you could yell too loudly at a Briarwood soccer game and be charged with a misdemeanor.

By an agency that is not subject to the open meetings act.

In a place that is not required to hold public meetings.

With no elected officials who must ultimately be answerable to ... somebody.

"There are no public officials," Johnston acknowledged. "But there are elected officers in the church, trustees who answer to the congregation."

It was unclear who will sponsor this bill. Johnston said he could not remember because the bill covers two counties and needs a sponsor from each. The bill was first advertised April 11, and must be advertised for four weeks before it can be introduced.

Briarwood High School, as has been reported, has been up in arms since a drug resulted in student dismissals and at least one arrest.

Students have complained about the way they were treated by school officials and law enforcement, claiming their phones were taken and students were bullied by authorities into telling on their friends. School officials have been silent.

Rather than confront the issue - that drugs are everywhere these days - they chose to keep it to themselves. Now, it seems, they want to keep it even closer.

But Johnston said the drug investigation had nothing to do with the bill. And neither does a desire for secrecy.

"If they did have a police department they would have an obligation to enforce the law," he said. "They couldn't cover up. I think it would bring more credibility, strength and openness."

Be careful what you wish for.

Alabama Church police force bill.jpg 





watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #36 
According to Watch-Pray above:

The “Spiritual Hierarchy” is the demonic Merovingian bloodline which will produce the false Christ and of which John MacArthur is a descendant...The “Masters, initiates, world disciples, disciples and aspirants affiliated with the Hierarchy” who are “all at this time passing through a cycle of great activity” could easily describe The Masters College and The Masters Seminary where John MacArthur and “Master Masons” are preparing the next generation to transform the churches into initiation centers for worship of the Beast and reception of his mark.

Given the Tribulation scenario of a false Christ and demonic hierarchy ruling over the apostate churches, it is entirely conceivable that those who worship Jesus Christ and refuse to take the Luciferic initiation and mark of the Beast will be arrested as heretics, tried in church tribunals and put to death. Church tribunals have happened before . . . during the Inquisition (Roman Catholic Church) and the Reformation (John Calvin).  In 2002, when the Chief Rabbi of Rome addressed the Vatican regarding the Noahide Laws, he reiterated “the obligation to form tribunals.”
formerlbcmember

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Reply with quote  #37 
Hello, 

 Not to get off topic but can anyone or who visits here and reads this tell me where I can find out who was in leadership at GCC from 1990-1995? This would include all pastors, elders, deacons. I am searching specifically all the pastors Youth/ Regular pastors! I know that Ken Ramey was one of the Youth Pastors there for the H.S. during this time as he had come onto staff there shortly after graduating the seminary at or around the time he married Kelli Ramey and had their son zach in 1992. I believe ken followed another pastor to this church who had been involved in a sexual abuse scandal. This friend/mentor, he had abused a young lady in his youth group at a prior ministry/church according to Ken Ramey.

 Ken was discussing his mentor in how he supported him through out the legal process. This is important because Ken has used the memory of a dead teenager in order to elevate this pastor as a victim and disparaged the young ladies name/memory  even going as far as to shame her and state that God took her out because of her unconfessed sin. I strongly believe as well as a few other former members ken will use anyone he victimizes as a platform for his sermons to certain audiences.

If you read in a prior post that the watchmen allowed on his blog that Ken used members of a church he split as a platform to elevate himself and demonized the members whom he hurt in order to take over their church. Of course when he couldn't take over he and other men caused a split for the purposes of not only taking the financial resources/church building but for the purposes of  starting his own church which provided him a good healthy income along with these elders. One of those men who was part of this group was abusing his wife physically to the point of severe beatings.  ken supported the husband as he counseled them for almost nine years and he told the wife to deal with it in order to lead her husband to the Lord. I can't think of anything more disturbing other than the recent child sex abuse case which ken supported the person who abused a young child in his church. It seems to me that where ever those coming out of GCC and the Master's seminary go they bring sexual, spiritual, and emotional abuse with them in order to keep men and women in line who fall under their leadership. I have now found a website called fundylandseesred.com I hope watchman doesn't mind me posting this here. I thoroughly enjoy posting and reading all of his information. He is spot on when it comes to MacArthur and his followers.  I believe that these women have information which only supports what this blog is about and why it is so important to expose the cult of John Macarthur. I believe that those who fall under the leadership of J.M. such as Pastor Ramey are just as dangerous in their teachings and in how they deal with dissidents with those who begin to see that they are in a cult. Unfortunately  the time they see is when the abuse has already begun and is near it's end then they are left without friends, businesses , and a church family. Please if you have any information on the leadership during this time or any information regarding Ken Ramey that would be helpful I would greatly appreciate it. I notice in all of their bio's including GCC website they are very vague in their backgrounds. Believe me I have found that the ones who have something to hide don't post very much information about when and where they served how long, when and where they got their education and how long. The ones who have no scandals yet post everything they possibly can about themselves and their backgrounds. Check it out I am finding it time and time again. I also noticed that almost every single one of them came to the Lord in grade school. Rarely do you find any of these men coming to the Lord beyond grammar school much less high school. They usually  have some life or death testimony or some Epiphany. Maybe I am being to harsh maybe not. Anyways Ken, J.M. , and those who support them if you are reading these comments "GOOD" I hope you do because watchman is and has been on to you and so are the rest of us. You can't censor the blogs when they speak the truth you so desperately want to run from. You are on notice that more and more information will come about and you will face the music at some point whether it be by those hurt by you or the Lord himself when you stand in front of Him. My hope and prayer for you is to repent, make right with those whom you have hurt, and give all that glory to God. I pray you begin to serve him with your whole heart and with the gifts he has blessed you with. Spread the gospel and love your brothers and sisters as He has commanded. If you continue down this road you will hurt more of God's heirs , His children and whoa to you who will be held doubly accountable to those whom you cause great harm. Thank you watchman for this blog and allowing those of us to post here. You are a blessing to the hurting and abused. You give voice to those who felt like they had none by opening up a platform for them to come together. I pray God will bless this blog and your work that you are doing for the kingdom. That you continually love and accept the hurting and welcome even those who oppose because debate is one way to draw out the truth. 
watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #38 
Big Brother is Surveilling You in the Churches

I was recently contacted by a Christian who is concerned because TMS grads are seeking leadership positions in his church.  This Christian also expressed concern that for no apparent reason several cameras have been installed in the church.  He said that he is perplexed by this because the church is relatively small and with nothing of value to steal.  I told him that this could be part of the surveillance that is being implemented in these police state churches.  Many churches across the world have installed cameras combined with facial recognition technology to track member's attendance and behavior.  Here are articles about it. 

Churchix Facial Recognition Software for Event Attendance

"To introduce the system, religious organisations need to get members to submit passport-like images to a database and install cameras in their places of worship. Feeds taken from the CCTV are then compared to the pictures in the database to see who attends each week.

Churches are even encouraged to set up a 'checkpoint' where members voluntarily register themselves by looking at a camera - with 99% accuracy."


Churches introduce FACIAL RECOGNITION to keep track of members' attendance



watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #39 
"Churchix", A Company Which Provides Facial Recognition Software to Track Church Attendance, is Owned by Israeli's!

"Moshe Greenshpan, the founder & CEO of the Israeli facial recognition company Skakash, said its subsidiary Face-Six has clients around the world including airports, law enforcement agencies, casinos and even homeowners. A video on its site demonstrates how the technology was used to identify members of the 2013 World Series champion Boston Red Sox from a video of them attending a White House ceremony.

"Churchix, a division of Face-Six, provides the technology to about 30 churches in the United States, Europe and Africa, to help them keep a digital roll call of parishioners who attend services and other events."
Facial recognition software is scanning you where you least expect it

"But, when I asked Greenshpan in our interview if he could provide the names of some of his clients so that I could speak with them about their use of facial recognition, he was reticent—a theme that would develop throughout our conversation as he refused to confirm numerous details about his operation." (L)

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    Except the Lord build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the                 Lord keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.  Psalm 127:1
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