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watchmanwakes

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From The Wartburg Watch blog: Ken Ramey of Lakeside Bible Church, a John MacArthur and 9Marks Supporter, Has a Disturbing Response to a Young Teen’s Rape

Just as the title states, Ken Ramey does have a disturbing response to the rape of his 13 year old church member.  Both the victim and his rapist were members of Ramey's LBC at the time of this assault.  The manner in which the victim and his mother were treated by Ramey, the LBC elders, and the LBC congregation is deplorable. 
bjw

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I was very sickened by this article, and did not like the way they had some diverting the topic with lighthearted remarks.  This case proves everything that is wrong with Lordship Salvation and Nouthetic Counseling, and why it is so dangerous.  The way this case was handled I'm sure Ramey was following exactly what the goons taught him to do.  If you have stumbled here and you are ever in a situation like this, go straight to the cops and never rely on the "Restoration Process," which is unbiblical.

I am so saddened by what they have been through.  I want to show for the benefit of those studying this cult why these things were done to them, compared to what I was taught during my time there.

As part of list 3 their gospel is to be guarded at all costs, and church authority trumps outside authorities.  They will plead with you to the point of tears to keep you from calling the police if a violent act is commited.  This ties in with the way they bend Matthew 18 to fit their restoration process.

Further, they believe psychiatry and big pharma are in some kind of conspiracy with the evolutionists to destroy lordship churches.  So, you are not allowed to go to an outside counselor and must only confide in their church officials.

Any mental illness or problem in your life they blame on unconfessed sin, some of which may be affecting your brain causing you to sin.  All issues are sin issues to be dealt with internally in the church.  Until you do you are subjected to being aggressively confronted or shunned.  Any unconfessed sin not confessed in this life you will be flogged for just as Christ was flogged when you face Him on judgment day.  This explains their emphasis on counseling, and probably why Ramey behaved how he did when the authorities showed. Another excuse they use to keep you from the authorities.

The reality is, in my opinion, the mechanisms in this cult are in place to keep you in mind control.  This isn't the first crime and won't be the last.  With the latest victim of these attrocities coming out it is that much more important to warn of the dangers of this cult, which loves to blame the victim and push the crime under the rug just to protect their "denomination."

If the victims come on here I do wish them my deepest condolences and will keep them in my prayers.

watchmanwakes

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Good points, BJW.   What you seem to be saying is that Ken Ramey had been trained to act or react the way he did.   It wasn't really poor judgment at all and that one could line up everything Ramey did from beginning to end with Macarthur's playbook: Subtitle: Crisis Management. 

It seems that the elder who recommended to Shauna that she call the police wasn't following playbook procedure.  Maybe he was later upbraided by Ramey for his hasty and "unwise" counsel. 

 

IDChristian

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Reply with quote  #4 

To Shauna, you have my applause for not bowing to wickedness and cover-up.

To Wartburgwatch
I've read some of the comments on Wartburgwatch and find them to be reactionary but without any substance to back up their criticisms. They complain about research done on Watchman Wakes about the Occult meaning of the Oaks and the plain truth about Druids. They've seen the documented proof with their own eyes and still they deny that the feast celebrated in a very similar way by MacArthurites could be the same Lugh Festival that is celebrated by nature worshipping Druids. Instead of doing more research, they make smug and clever comments to discredit well documented research...simply because they rationalize by their own thinking, that MacArthur couldn't possibly be a Druid.

Then one guy said that Freemasons are nothing but a social club and that the rest of us who believe anything else just don't get it. He's either dishonest or totally naive. Instead he should do a little more research before showing his complete ignorance by reading some of the people who have actually reached the higher levels in the Masonic Lodges like Jim Shaw.

Someone named Headless Unicorn is living up to his name. He likes to banter about his supreme intellectual sounding mindless squab. If he wants to bash someone like watchman wakes, at least he should do his research first. It would be a little more interesting. Watchmanwakes has done his research, made connections, documented alliances, and traced back to the roots of ecumenicism and Freemasonic/Druidic infiltration in the ranks of John MacArthur's empire. My advice to the Headless One...sober up and take another look. You might learn something.

At Wartburgwatch, they seem to have an endless sense of pride as they label their created opponents by derogatory names such as wacko and Weirdo. I guess it makes them feel somehow superior.

Sorry, but Wartburgwatch gets a thumbs down. Sure, they've raised some good issues, but what mind numbing, distorted frequency are they on? Truth frequency? Not likely. They speak complex nonsense as though they are in love with hearing themselves speak. Complimenting each other's goofiness in true dialectic process management will never bring out the simple truth. Give the Bible and some honesty. Then I'll listen to you.
watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #5 
Thanks for the support ID Christian.  You made excellent points.

I would like to make one point about the report written by Wartburg Watch and that point is regarding their final and I think only counsel given to Ken Ramey and Lakeside Bible Church: the need to consult GRACE and Boz Tchividjian.  I didn't notice counsel given to follow God's word.

Who is Boz T?  And why would a professing watchman site advise any church to consult with him? 

For starters, Boz T is Billy Graham's grandson.  The same Billy Graham who has been exposed for his Masonic membership.  Could this be one reason why comments exposing Graham's masonic affiliation have been mocked by Wartburg Watch? 
IDChristian

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And further to my point, I bring in the Bible to see what it has to say. Here's a good example. Priest of God by day and something else by night. This is Masonry. Because it's done in secret (secret societies) God showed their secret to his prophet, Ezekiel. They worship the sun. This is a description of what the Mason's and the Vatican do in their secret societies. On the surface, the average person thinks of them as a minister of God. But they are aligning themselves with Luciferianism. And make no mistake, the Mason's deity is Lucifer as is the case with the Vatican. There have been many videos and pictures to prove this is true.

Today all the secrets of secret societies have been exposed and yet there are still those who deny that there's anything wrong with Freemasonry or Catholicism. We have many Baptists becoming Masons and many many Christians becoming Catholic. They worship the sun the same today as in Ezekiel's day. Nothing new under the sun.

Ezekiel 8:7And he brought me to the door of the court; and when I looked, behold a hole in the wall. 8Then said he unto me, Son of man, dig now in the wall: and when I had digged in the wall, behold a door. ....12Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark, every man in the chambers of his imagery? for they say, The LORD seeth us not; the LORD hath forsaken the earth. 13He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do......16And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD'S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east. 17Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose. 18Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them.

Why is it so hard for people today to believe that there are false prophets and false teachers among us who know the Bible well but have a dark side? Do we really know what they do in secret? I see some very rotten fruit being exposed in Rick Warren and many other prominent Bible teachers. Has their heart become darkened because they have been blinded by a false light, the false light of Lucifer? Very possible....

As for myself, I've learned the hard way not to trust men, especially those who have a corrupt doctrine and strange alliances. Something is going on behind the scenes. And with this Festival of Lugh, there's something very evil going on behind the scenes. They have corrupted their ways....
bjw

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Reply with quote  #7 
ID Christian makes some good points.  Attacking this site because they disagree with some of watchmanwakes conclusions seems like an attempt to hurt his credibility, and if I didn't know any better I would think some of these are trolls trying to get the Wartburg Watch thread derailed.  So what if they don't agree with his eschatology or all conclusions made here, they should at least be able to give an unbiased assesment of the information without disrespecting the source.  The Bible itself teaches a conspiracy will infiltrate the church in the last days, and watchmanwakes and watchpray, in my opinion, are just trying to show a workable model for this eschatology using research, money trails, quotes, articles, etc.  There is nothing about it that warrants insults like kooky, conspiracy theory, or putting it in the same category as dungeons and dragons players or ufo watchers as some on Wartburg Watch did.  

Hurting the credibility of this website is only going to make it that much harder for abuse victims in the future to get help or find info.  There is not a whole lot out there on this cult like there is others, and Wartburg Watch should want to have avenues like this open for the future.  The classy thing to do would be to give the link with a disclaimer that Wartburg Watch does not agree with all eschatology views of the author.

As for Ramey's handling of this case, I think the mistake they make is when they put the cult above the laws of the land.  I think Lordship Salvation is an abomination, but it is their constitutional right to practice it as long as it does not hurt others or break the law.  The right thing for him to do would have been to go straight to the authorities with Shauna and her son, turn the perpetrator in, and let the cops have the case.  Then give them any pastoral counseling as required by their beliefs.  However, it is evident list 3 of "Genuine Saving Faith" was put first instead of the law to guard the cult's reputation.   I do not think this type of counseling, which is nothing more than a glorified confessional and regression therapy session, is right for this type of trauma and probably only makes it worse in dredging up bad memories and blaming the victim.

I can't see Ramey or any elders involved getting out of this unscathed.  I know in my teaching credential classes I was taught anyone with knowledge of sexual abuse that does not report it can face time in prison almost as bad as the offender.  The perpetrator needs to be a mandated reporter and not allowed around children, as does any other pedophile they claim to be counseling. Also, anyone converted into this cult should be told ahead of time what separates it from Christianity and not told it is "non-denominational."  I highly doubt Shauna knew their bizarre practices when she was sucked into joining this.

bjw

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Reply with quote  #8 
ID Christian, sorry I didn't see the last post, but that is even more proof from the Bible of a conspiracy in the last days. They can't dispute that.
watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjw
 The classy thing to do would be to give the link with a disclaimer that Wartburg Watch does not agree with all eschatology views of the author. 


I wish I knew what "eschtology views" they are talking about. 
bjw

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Quote:
Originally Posted by watchmanwakes


I wish I knew what "eschtology views" they are talking about. 
I know what you mean, it does seem like they were attacking you without telling what it was they thought was wrong or what they disagreed with. If they think you are wrong why can't they provide counter-evidence? I notice you and watchpray both give documentation, if they think it is wrong why can't they tell why they disagree with the source? I can't figure out why they publish Shauna's situation and expose Ken Ramey, but then start attacking others for doing the same.
Watchpray showed pics of Druids side by side with Camp Regen and they looked the same to me. Also, both cults have a fixation on oak trees. If Druidry is not somehow involved here they are sure doing a poor job of hiding it.
IDChristian

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To add a few thoughts to my previous observations while reading comments at the Wartburgwatch, the dialectic is in full swing with the "right" thoughts being rewarded and the "wrong" thoughts being punished with a slam dunk and a grin of disdain even by the facilitator, in this case using the word "whacky" and threatening to ban and disapprove comments. In the case of some of these smart-mouths, I wish I could speculate that these are trolls pumping out their tactical slurs but they seem to fit the groupthink just fine. They conform to the spirit of the Queen bee whose name just happens to be Dee.

Upon reflection, the goal of the Beast system, for those who have been paying attention, is the collective, hive mindset so that we can be controlled. We've been trained in it since childhood. The mantra has always been, "Fall in line, Comrade...if you want to save your life". Christ says differently:

John 12:24Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. 25He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. 26If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

Truth is rarely popular and judging from the haughty retorts and contempt for research, I'm wondering how much truth these guys are willing to hear. It's amazing how they can see the Lugh Festival in action and full color on Watchman wakes blog and still rationalize it away... chalking it up to random or bad choices on the part of the youth leaders. Is that logical? No...it's diabolical. To call someone loony who has put the proof right in front of our faces, is lying. No, I see little respect for the truth. Well, some are seeing it but unless they consult Christ rather than the group, their individual thoughts will be swallowed up in the brilliance of groupthink.

Another jaw-dropping example of pride and arrogance against truth, is a denial of Billy Graham being a Mason which adds up to preferential treatment of their celebrity King. They have raised up a hero, placed him on a pedestal and blinded their minds to who he really is. They don't even want to know for if they did, the information is available.

If as you say, bjw, that eschatology is a possible reason for shunning, then they've gone beyond the discussion and entered the realm of politics. Other than that, I agree with you that we should be able to look at the facts in adult fashion and make "an unbiased assessment" of the message, not railing against the messenger. For the sake of Truth....Christ's, not ours. Christ often said, "he who has ears, let him hear"....a good listener can escape years of sorrow by not joining in with such cults as have been exposed on the Watchman wakes. Tune in.
watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #12 
What they were doing in the Temple in Ezekiel 8 well describes what they are doing secretly in the churches today.  Sun worship..Baal worship going on in the Temple, but according to many "watchmen", these practices aren't happening in the churches and the churches and denominations can't be controlled by today's Masonic Sun worshippers.   
IDChristian

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Watchmanwakes, yes....Sun worship is alive and well today...easily recognizable if you understand what you're looking at. For instance the utensils that the Priest and Pope use in Mass. And the incense being waved in the same passage describes what the Catholic priests are doing in their ritualistic services. Or consider what the G stands for in the Masonic Lodges and all their rituals and rites....And all the underground pagan sacrifices that go on under the Vatican....are they not sacrificing to Baal?
IDChristian

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Reply with quote  #14 
Watchmanwakes, Also wanted speak to the eschatology issue that was brought up earlier by you and bjw:

Speaking of eschatology, it seems to have become a matter of politics (influencing people from our own denominational trends). It's definitely become a political issue rather than a Biblical one. In the end, we have to ask ourselves who we are working for...our denomination, our pet Internet personalities or are we honestly searching for the truth in the Word ourself?

What's so hard about eschatology? The most difficult part is backing away from our own pet theories, agendas, dogmas and reliances. Stop it. We must let the Scriptures do the talking. Let the Spirit show us his plans. If we are speaking in terms of Scripture, and not relying on some historical figure like Augustine as our source of doctrine, or the latest prophecy scholar on the Internet, then when someone says something that disagrees with Scripture, instead of spouting facts from the latest popular end time pundit, you can give an honest answer as to the hope that lies within you. So much energy has been wasted on endless arguing over what "he said, she said".

Eschatology...Christ's Revelation about his plan for the end. We have to begin somewhere, but it's where we end that counts. The tools of the trade are prayer, the Word and research. Research may include more than our own denominational viewpoint...but must always use Scripture in context so that we end up with things happening from God's viewpoint.
watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjw
I can't figure out why they publish Shauna's situation and expose Ken Ramey, but then start attacking others for doing the same.


That's THE important question.  Watchman ministries that don't watch.  Discernment ministries that don't discern.  It's OK to expose Ramey's disturbing response, but it's not OK to expose the evidence that Ramey's mentor, John Macarthur, is a Freemason and Druid.  It's OK to expose that Ramey has children in mud while handling bloody animal parts, but it's not OK to expose that these activities may have a pagan or occult meaning.  

Most Christians are unaware of the Devil's device called the dialectic process and the use of the controlled opposition.  What is this?  The conspirators will create their own opposition and in that way they will control the outcome of the conflict by controlling and neutralizing any true opposition that arises against the conspiracy.  And it's important as well that the conspirators obtain a monopoly on all opposition to the conspiracy ("Why can they expose, but then attack others who do the same?").

For instance, about 10-15 years ago, the conspirators sought to transform all churches into the Warren/Drucker organizational model.  Anticipating much Christian opposition to their planned takeover, they created their own opposition: the Discernment Ministries.  And though these DM's were very vocal, told much truth, were supported by Christians who opposed the conspiracy (Purpose Driven), and had nearly a monopoly on all opposition to this movement, the Warren/Drucker model is today in almost every church in America.  Why did the DM's fail?  It was planned that way. They were ALL merely controlled opposition fronts working for the conspirators and they were successful in neutralizing any true opposition to the conspiracy.    

Now we have much clergy abuse going on and some discerning Christians are angry and outraged by it.  Don't you think there is now a well organized network of "watch and help" ministries in place to "expose" and "oppose" this abuse and to "counsel" its victims?  And Boz T, being Graham's grandson with a very well publicized ministry, is he an important hub in this network? 

The question before us is this:  Is Wartburg Watch's opposition to clergy abuse genuine and Christian or is its opposition merely controlled? 
  

 




IDChristian

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Reply with quote  #16 

Is there an eschatological precedent for putting a mark in the forehead (such as the 144,000 in Revelation) to save those who still trust and obey God the Creator? Yes, here is the passage that directly follows Ezekiel 8 passage about the sun worshippers (Mason's/Catholics). God was not just a little angry with them that they would prentend to serve him and at the same time bring sun worship into his temple. So first comes exposure of the sinful practices being committed by his so-called priests and elders and then comes God's judgement.

Ezekiel 9:3And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side; 4And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. 5And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: 6Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house. 7And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city. 8And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord GOD! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?

9Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The LORD hath forsaken the earth, and the LORD seeth not. 10And as for me also, mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will recompense their way upon their head.

Today we have Rick Warren and associates leading people into Catholicism and we have many Baptist ministers leading their flocks into Freemasonry. What comes after all has been exposed? It's time for people to stop saying in all their smugness "well, I'm not worried because it will all pan out" and returning to their big armchair to watch the latest sit-com. We are responsible to study to show ourselves approved. And that includes not being lazy about researching to see what the Bible has to say about end time. Are we approaching the coming of the Lord? Surely we are...but so many are asleep, just as was prophesied concerning the Laodicean Church. Christ's words are Watch! Wake up! Be ready!
IDChristian

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Reply with quote  #17 
Watchmanwakes....just read your comment about controlled opposition. Very good observations and research....and sadly, very true. Staged, managed and keeping the opposition distracted and silenced. So kind of a waste of time even trying get involved in such blogs as Wartburgwatch that are simply aiming for consensus rather than truth.

BTW...sorry to be a bit disjointed in my responses...I was probably still putting up my last comment at the same time yours went up.
watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #18 
You've made good points, ID Christian, and I would like now to give a link to an audio show that will help the reader to recognize a "controlled opposition front."

Just scroll down the page "Watch Unto Prayer--Audios."
couragehonor

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Reply with quote  #19 
Thank you all for your support I'm billy's mom. It means so much to me that you all are here. Bob is not crazy and I believe his blog to be dead on the money. It took me awhile of research to come to that conclusion. Bob has done a lot in standing in that gap by confronting LBC and Ken Ramey, big props to him for this. I wil talking with Dee at thewartburgwatch.com on the discussion regarding calling bob names as I believe him to be very sound biblically. He is very well versed in scripture and clearly he loves the Lord. I know this,doesn't take away the insults he's endured but just know that I am defending you as you have defended us. We care for you Bob you are my brothers and sisters in Christ. Great harm fell upon my child and it's brothers and sisters like you who defend and protect.
couragehonor

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I must have missed something can you show me where you were they don't want you posting my sons story? I just started reading comments here so forgive me I need to take time today to catch up. I want to be sure that I read all your comments. I have researched a lot of what has been put here and when I found this blog I was relieved to know that I wasn't crazy on the stuff I have been finding on all the topics posted here. Be patient with some people as there is a lot of information posted where they have not seen these things. I saw it because I believe the Lord has been opening my eyes and they didn’t open fast. It has been a two year journey fie me alone to look here on this blog and say I get it! Hope this makes sense.
watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #21 
Couragehonor, I'm happy that this forum was able to provide you with some support.  It was created to support those abused by Macarthur's network and I appreciate all those, including yourself, who have contributed.  I've learned much from you and them and thanks for the kind words.

You know Bob may very well be crazy, but is he wrong?  Insults and name calling go with the territory so no need to talk with Dee.  Most important is that you and your son have escaped that LBC cult-like bondage and are now free to follow Jesus Christ.
couragehonor

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Reply with quote  #22 
No, I don't think he is crazy in the least. In fact he is very well versed in the word of God and has a huge amount of research that I believe to be very acurate. I believe others have jumped to conclusions rather than really look at what he has discovered. It is easy to do when were talking about druids,festivals, masons, and such. Some people have not been awakened to these things yet. I wouldn't have had the Lord not led me to it. Ken has abused so many spiritually, he's a bully. A bible bully at that! I would have ran for the hills had I known it would be like this at LBC. Never had had problems in aNY church growing up. It is even worse than you think and it's about to blow,wide open for ken ramey. I have got more information and more people from this church giving up the abuse that has occurred which ramey sweeps under the rug allegedly and runs those who he wants silence from he runs them off!!! I just got told today that I'm Satan's agent by BECKY WEND or something to that affect because I sent a text with the posting about my sons rape at thewartburgwatch.com. Each member got a 1 time text since I have to continue to defend my sons reputation and good name after that vile letter ramey sent to the church. I have a right to defend him and counter kens lies with the Truth! Since he is further victimizing a crime victim /kid by slandering him and causing others to do the same. Ken is opening the flood gate to be exposed!!! I have had it with the whole lot of them and everything is,coming to light. As BECKY so eloquently stated "I'm out of control ". I say good as long as,rge truth cones out!
watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #23 
On March 6, 2016, Dee, The Wartburg Watch administrator, made the following comment on her blog regarding this forum and "Couragehonor", who is Shauna (my comments are in red): 

"Shauna and I had a great talk this afternoon. Part of this was my fault. I know that Bob J was into conspiracies, going so far as to say that MacArthur is a Druid. Good night! [A truth that Wartburg Watch won't allow] I had been planning to talk with her in the coming week about the Mason thing. [To let Shauna know that Wartburg Watch won't allow prominent Christians to be identified as Masons]

"All of you who have read this blog know that I think that the whole Free Mason things is overblown and do not look at them as involved in some sort of conspiracy, etc,. That stand has lost me a few readers but, it is what it is. [Dee won't acknowledge that Masons conspire to destroy Christianity, despite evidence to the contrary. The facts her readers present are ignored.]
 
 
"From Shauna’s perspective, BobJ was the only one who allowed her to post her story and believed her before coming to us. So, she felt she needed to defend him. [This isn't true. Shauna told me she believed Macarthur was a Mason long before Wartburg Watch published her story] However, after we talked, she asked if I would please remove her comments regarding the Mason thing or anything else that might detract from her story.
 
 
"One of the most important things that blogs can do is to support victims of terrible situations like this one with Billy and Shauna. It is really frustrating to me that some blogs out there do go off on tangents regarding things like Masons, King James Version Only, etc. [A blog has to know its limitations] It is also troubling when a wonderful person like Shauna is only supported by such a blog. [Dee doesn't want abuse victims seeking help from Christians that tell the whole truth] I am glad he supported her and posted her comments but I do not agree with his stands on these issues. [Though she can't refute any of those stands]
 
 
"I look at this blog as one way to educate people about some of these conspiracy things while at the same time discussing things like CJ Mahaney and the seeming intransigence of the Calvinistas who support him since it does seem like a conspiracy thing on this blog [Dee will allow for some conspiracies, but not others]. That is why we try so hard to give links, etc and urge people to read for themselves.
 
 
"Shauna gets it. [Shauna has now seen the light: Masons don't conspire afterall] I told her about my dad who was a 32nd degree Mason [who has taken an oath to Lucifer]. He went to one or two meetings a year and enjoyed grabbing a beer with the other guys who treated this as more of a club as opposed to a secret mission to destroy Christianity. He used to laugh when I brought that up to him after my conversion. He showed me his ring and even shared the secret handshake, etc. with me-laughing about those *silly* rituals. ["Silly rituals" that are initiations into the occult and which place the Mason in demonic bondage] I can assure our readers that my dad worked 12 hours a day 6 days a week and 6 hours on Sunday. His favorite activity was sleeping in his big easy chair, sipping a vodka and watching football. My dad had a deathbed conversion which I have discussed on numerous occasions
 
"I sometimes feel sorry for folks who get going on conspiracy theories because they detract from the real business of bringing truth and light to the church. [Don't bring up the truth that there is a very well organized campaign to transform the churches into agents for Satan] Folks, the real problems in the church involves very real cover up and conspiracies to hide child sex abuse, domestic violence and hyper authoritarianism. [And who are these conspirators and how are they organized?] The little guy down the street who goes to a yearly Masonic meeting is not the problem. [Even if he masquerades as a Christian pastor? Masons meet twice a month]
 
 
"Due to the difficulties at home these days in caring for my relatives, I am missing some of these opportunities to jump in and help out. I apologize and will do my best to keep abreast of things. [She is having trouble countering and deleting the blog comments that tell too much truth] 
 
 
"For now, let me tell you what Shauna must face this evening. Ken Ramey has called an all church meeting in which he will discuss what is going on. I think it is possible that we will get a report from the meeting. In the meantime, I have heard from Amy Smith, SNAP, in Dallas who believes we will need to go to the press with this. I think it is a great idea."

 
 
bjw

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One thing worth mentioning is that it was Dee who made this an issue and started the ad hominem attacks against watchmanwakes.  She could have been grateful for the help Shauna got here, and not made personal attacks against those with different opinions.  Instead, she has to put down any other site with an opinion that differs from her own.  When posts were made at TWW agreeing with this site she could have simply said she disagreed with them.  She has yet to provide one counter-evidence for anything mentioned here except an anecdotal story from her dad, who only went to one meeting per year, and must have missed all other bi-monthly meetings. Even leaving the masonic issue aside, what about all other evidence at this site?

This really irks me because this is a very destructive cult.  I have watched it kill people, tear families apart, ruin marriages and friendships, and steal countless years of money and labor from people.  To see people trivialize this damage by only helping victims "cope" with abuse without encouraging them to flee from it is sickening.  What if their pastors give compensation or apologize for the abuse, it will just happen again because the doctrine and people never change.  Churches as far away as Italy have been infiltrated, and they will never change their ways.  I encourage everyone to read this site and weigh all the evidence carefully, and don't patronize websites engaging in ad hominem attacks without evidence.

MyrtleforBriar

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Hi all,

Have just discovered this website via Youtube and John Coleman's podcasts.  We live in Australia, and recently had a little to do with one of John Macarthur's churches in our city.  We were immediately struck with the zombie like behavior of the congregation.  We have a little experience with cults having spent 15 years in one in the 80s and 90s.  We knew straight away something was wrong.  Apart from the fact that the pastor completely ignored a group of 5 adults visiting in his church on Sunday morning (despite being aware we were there because he glanced over a few times) and the fact that the congregation didn't even look at us throughout the meeting, the message seemed fairly good to us.  Then we went on the Sunday night and heard a young pastor complaining to the congregation that they just don't understand how difficult it is for 'us pastors' and they need to be less demanding!  Couldn't believe the arrogance.  We left quickly after that.

Have read much more about Macarthur and his connections and it all makes such sense.  It also gels with our previous experience with cults and how they operate.

About the discernment ministries. 

A lot of these so called 'watch' ministries are run by Calvinist die hards who have John Macarthur's attitude towards anyone who isn't reformed.  He recently said that anyone who wasn't reformed 'was basically irrelevant' (strange fire conference last year).  I don't know how you can totally deny the salvation of every other Christian on the planet who hasn't got membership in a reformed church.  It explains a lot really.  There is one discernment ministry in Australia who hide behind their very bizarre logo which includes some new age occult symbols.  They will not tell anyone who they are yet their attitude to the church they are watching, a massive international pentecostal group is incredibly hostile.  They have the same attitude to anyone who doesn't agree with everything they say.  Now like the Wartburg site, they have some very good points, but most of their posts are simply copies of other people's research, or reprints of media outlet articles.  Then they will make some scathing statement which a whole host of people, usually the same ones over and over, will agree with. 

A few people have tried to complain about their hostility, but they generally end up getting attacked by the other commenters.  It is a blog, but runs like a forum with the same personalities bullying others.  You never know who is going to comment from the blog admin, and it appears to be a group of men who claim they are all pastors or elders of other churches, but they won't say which churches.  It is blatantly clear they are mostly if not all reformed or calvinists.

Our hearts go out to the young girl who was raped.  This sounds a lot like the story of the missionary couple at the Village Church and the wife's struggle with her pedophile husband.  Wartburg Watch did a cover of this too I believe.

I make a point of not going to these sites anymore.  Once I know what their agenda is I steer clear.  After having read now about controlled opposition, thanks to this site, a lot of my confusion is now cleared up.  I thought it was just me feeling alienated on these sites, if you don't subscribe to the 'group think', or the 'egregore' (creepy) then you are not wanted. 
watchmanwakes

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyrtleforBriar
I make a point of not going to these sites anymore.  Once I know what their agenda is I steer clear.  After having read now about controlled opposition, thanks to this site, a lot of my confusion is now cleared up.  I thought it was just me feeling alienated on these sites, if you don't subscribe to the 'group think', or the 'egregore' (creepy) then you are not wanted. 


I believe these blogs are dialectic sessions or facilitator-led groups designed to unify diversity and to achieve consensus or group think.  The blog administrator is the facilitator who introduces the social issue and the commenters are the diverse group.  Commenters who tell unpopular truths will be peer pressured to conform to the group consensus or will be forced out (they will be put on moderation or their comments will be deleted).  Commenters will conform to the consensus due to their weakness and need for social approval.  In other words, these blogs have an agenda to mind control.  There are no conspiracies and if you think they exist, then you are a wacko.  There are no Masons masquerading as Christian pastors.  Masons don't conspire to destroy Christianity.  Famous Christians can't be Druids.  John Calvin wasn't a Jew or a murderer.  The United Nations is harmless and benign.  The apostate church isn't building Satan's world government.   
watchmanwakes

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjw
One thing worth mentioning is that it was Dee [Parsons] who made this an issue and started the ad hominem attacks against watchmanwakes.  She could have been grateful for the help Shauna got here, and not made personal attacks against those with different opinions.  Instead, she has to put down any other site with an opinion that differs from her own.  When posts were made at TWW agreeing with this site she could have simply said she disagreed with them.  She has yet to provide one counter-evidence for anything mentioned here...


BJW,

In response to Dee Parsons mocking our comments that there is evidence John Macarthur is a Mason and Druid, I decided to take a look into Wartburg Watch.  I found out that Dee Parsons' real agenda is not to expose church abuse, but to bring women elders, pastors, and even "celebate" homosexuals into the church.  Also, though a purported Christian watch blog, I found out that The Wartburg Warch's pastor, Wade Burleson, teaches that Jesus Christ is the Archangel, Michael.  He also teaches that God is father AND mother and is even feminine--which goes along with Dee Parsons' feminist agenda.  Please read the evidence here and spread the word of warning:

The Wartburg Watch: Feminist and LGBTQ Change Agents
Noelle33

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I know people who are Christians that are struggling with homosexual tendencies.  I think they should be welcome in the church (the healthy don't need a doctor) but it needs to be clear that it is a sin and they should fight it just as a heterosexual who isn't married needs to control their urges. I don't think we should just dismiss them with no hope and tell them they are beyond redemption because that is what Macarthur does.  I now find out, I am not the only family member to be shunned.  My Christian cousin was told she and her children were going to hell.  My niece, Nicole Sjostrand Williams and her "minister" husband Sammy Williams, an Indian who came to the US to get an education at Master's college have done nothing but tear families and lives apart.  All they do is beg for money, have babies and go on vacation.  They live in India in a nice beachfront house with a maid and while there are videos of Sammy's "church", most are vacation pics.  Out of at least 75 relatives, I only know of 4 that haven't been shunned.  My sister (Nicole's mother) tells me the JWs are a cult,  she tells me we are saved through grace-not works, and then she says I am going to hell because I don't bear fruit.  (How does she know? Is she with me 24/7?) If she hadn't stolen and begged for money, her daughter would have gone to a local college and probably still be normal and living in the USA.  So her greed, combined with JM's evil cost her... her only child.  John Macarthur seems to have overlooked one VERY important verse in the bible that applies to him and every member of his congregation and college. "Don't take the splinter out of your brother's eye when you have a beam in your own.  First take the beam out of your eye and then you will be able to see more clearly to get the splinter out of your brother's."  This describes his church to a tee. 

My sister had an affair with her previous minister, but I am the one who is going to hell because she doesn't see fruit and I don't practice Lordship salvation.  And yes-they are like robots.  Christian snobs (oxymoron) loveless, judgmental, hypocritical robots without the capacity for love.  She doesn't see fruit?  The greatest of these is love.  I don't see fruit or love in her but I would never tell her she isn't saved because only God can see the heart and truly knows.  Plus, I'm not dead yet so how can she know the end of my story when it hasn't been written?  Predestination and the elect.  But what makes her so sure she and JM are the elect? The first sign I noticed was she lost her sense of humor and was angry all the time. I don't see her growing in Christ.  I see her regressing and according to the Macarthur study bible, if you aren't growing you aren't saved. I guess all our Christian grandparents and parents are in hell according to her because they never met John Macarthur since he wasn't born yet and therefore could not have followed Lordship Salvation which he made up apparently. 

Oh yeah, the corker is they both wear muslim attire because in India it is the custom.  But when you are an American in America, you are not Muslim and you are at your Baptist father's funeral,  I feel it is a bit disrespectful.  I  have also caught both of them in lie after lie.  So is it right for a liar and adulteress to be a respectable member of the church but not a young man struggling with sexual confusion who may not have even done anything yet seeking help?  I don't think so.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelle33
I know people who are Christians that are struggling with homosexual tendencies.  I think they should be welcome in the church (the healthy don't need a doctor) but it needs to be clear that it is a sin and they should fight it just as a heterosexual who isn't married needs to control their urges. I don't think we should just dismiss them with no hope and tell them they are beyond redemption because that is what Macarthur does. 


Jesus Christ died for all homosexuals and we need to preach the good news to them. Once they believe in Jesus Christ, they will be born again and welcome in the Church.  Once children of God, they may very well struggle with homosexual tendencies and temptations of the world and the flesh as we all do.  Dee Parsons, the administrator of The Wartburg Watch, advocates that unrepentant "gay Christians" enter church leadership.  Dee Parsons even believes that these "gay Christians" may continue to practice sodomy with God's blessing.  The following question was posed by Dee Parsons:

"When it comes to gay Christians, there's one question that causes more debate than any other: Does God bless gay relationships? Or are gay Christians called to lifelong celibacy? (L)

Does Macarthur say that homosexuals are "beyond redemption?" 

 

 

  
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Noelle33,

I see that your niece and her husband are now stationed at Cornerstone Community Church in Goa, India which is perhaps India's prime tourist destination. 

Naturally, CCC is a Calvin church as their "The Gospel" statement proclaims that Jesus Christ did not take upon himself the sins of the world (John 1:29), but only "the sin of those who would come to trust in Him" (The Elect).  Calvinism does breed an elitism/snobbery similar to that of the Jews: "We are the chosen ones."  And your niece really wouldn't know if she's one of the elect unless she perseveres to the end in works.

And I have seen this so many times among couples who are "reformed" that I can't resist mentioning that ALL of your niece's 5 children have Jewish/OT names!  According to Awake Conference: "Sammy lives in Goa with his wife Nicole and their five children; Hannah, Caleb, Micah, Sarah and Abigail."  Why does a Gentile girl from California married to an Indian have 5 kids with Jewish names? 

Missionaries or Restauranteurs? 

Being dissatisfied with the quality of coffee in Goa and realizing "that there were no nice air-conditioned, classy places to chill and hang out in the area," they started the Coffee Cove.  According to The Goan Foodie: "Coming to Goa from Pune, Nicole and Sammy Williams established their very own coffee shop after realizing their were not many options when it came to good coffee."  The Coffee Cove has an impressive dinner menu as well.  Their Dragon Chicken is only 220 Rupees.  Looks like your niece and her husband are also successful restauranteurs in Goa. 

bjw

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"Does Macarthur say that homosexuals are 'beyond redemption?'" 

Not necessarily, when I was there the official policy was homosexuals had to be living as straight while in the organization.  I met two people, one a professor and another a student, who both claimed to be cured through nouthetic counseling, and the professor even had a wife and kids.  However, I don't think that lends any support to the counseling techniques because you hear stories all the time about gay people trying to live straight for the sake of their family or religion all the time, and in this case both could be on the line if one ever came out.
watchmanwakes

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Originally Posted by Noelle33
Oh yeah, the corker is they both wear muslim attire because in India it is the custom.  But when you are an American in America, you are not Muslim and you are at your Baptist father's funeral,  I feel it is a bit disrespectful. 


Wearing Muslim attire to your Christian father's funeral?  Macarthurites in India wearing Muslim attire?  I have trouble understanding that since in Goa according to Wiki, "66.% were Hindu, 26.5% were Christian, and 8.3% were Muslim."  And in Pune, according to Wiki, 79.4% are Hindu, and only 11% are Muslims. 
formerlbcmember

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Noelle33 Hi I read your post and wow eye opening. Did you know that ken ramey and sammy williams are best buds? Ken has been over there every year since sammy has been there to preach or go to one of his ministry events. Ken is in fact going there this month as he always does. You described lakeside bible church and the pastor there along with his wife kelli ramey to a T. People there are judgemental and the people there have their clicks. I thought you were describing lakeside bible church when you put up your comment.
Calvin arp1973

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And further to my point, I bring in the Bible to see what it has to say. Here's a good example. Priest of God by day and something else by night. This is Masonry. Because it's done in secret (secret societies) God showed their secret to his prophet, Ezekiel. They worship the sun. This is a description of what the Mason's and the Vatican do in their secret societies. On the surface, the average person thinks of them as a minister of God. But they are aligning themselves with Luciferianism. And make no mistake, the Mason's deity is Lucifer as is the case with the Vatican. There have been many videos and pictures to prove this is true.

Today all the secrets of secret societies have been exposed and yet there are still those who deny that there's anything wrong with Freemasonry or Catholicism. We have many Baptists becoming Masons and many many Christians becoming Catholic. They worship the sun the same today as in Ezekiel's day. Nothing new under the sun.

Ezekiel 8:7And he brought me to the door of the court; and when I looked, behold a hole in the wall. 8Then said he unto me, Son of man, dig now in the wall: and when I had digged in the wall, behold a door. ....12Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark, every man in the chambers of his imagery? for they say, The LORD seeth us not; the LORD hath forsaken the earth. 13He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do......16And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD'S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east. 17Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose. 18Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them.

Why is it so hard for people today to believe that there are false prophets and false teachers among us who know the Bible well but have a dark side? Do we really know what they do in secret? I see some very rotten fruit being exposed in Rick Warren and many other prominent Bible teachers. Has their heart become darkened because they have been blinded by a false light, the false light of Lucifer? Very possible....

As for myself, I've learned the hard way not to trust men, especially those who have a corrupt doctrine and strange alliances. Something is going on behind the scenes. And with this Festival of Lugh, there's something very evil going on behind the scenes. They have corrupted their ways....
Noelle33

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Originally Posted by formerlbcmember
Noelle33 Hi I read your post and wow eye opening. Did you know that ken ramey and sammy williams are best buds? Ken has been over there every year since sammy has been there to preach or go to one of his ministry events. Ken is in fact going there this month as he always does. You described lakeside bible church and the pastor there along with his wife kelli ramey to a T. People there are judgemental and the people there have their clicks. I thought you were describing lakeside bible church when you put up your comment.


I did not know that.  I know something very bad is going on there. I don't know why the people involved can't see what they are doing. Too busy getting the splinter out of their brother's eye when there is a beam in their own I suppose.  Thank you for your comment.

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