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r2z_d-06

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Hi. I just wanted to share my experience with a friend. After she went to UCLA, she really changed. I was surprised, given that she was going to a public university. Well, she joined the GOC (Grace on Campus) group. And I believe she started going to the GCC church given that GCC runs GOC. I knew her since we were in elementary school, so I really noticed when she began to change. I remember her telling me that she had joined this Christian group on campus, and they evangelize and most people on campus "stereotype" it and "give it a bad name." Well - I guess they are kind of aggressive in their evangelism techniques. I went mostly under the radar from her since at the time I was attending a Christian liberal arts college and dating a Christian guy. But I first noticed her personality change when I mentioned that I had broken up with my boyfriend. I sensed her judgment and anger about that. Also, I remember her telling me that, "constantly, you know the right thing to do. You always have to do the right thing." I sensed this huge pressure for perfectionism. I ended up absorbing it to a certain degree and getting really high grades but then falling into a deep depression when I got a B+. Otherwise straight As. Also I became depressed after I broke up with my boyfriend. The fact that I had this high achieving perfectionist friend fueled by doctrine that she shared with me didn't help me deal with the pressures of college. I just sensed this pressure to be perfect, as she constantly shared with me her "successes" as fueled by the Lord. I remember her boasting to me about how many credits she was taking and I remember thinking, my goodness, that can't possibly be healthy. Seemed like she was constantly barely managing all of the classes and she told me that she prayed in order to get through one final and she boasted to me how many pages she had memorized by visual memory in an hour through the help of God. Ok, this was just odd given that she was going to a public university. Most practical people budget in enough time to sleep, eat, study, etc. I didn't feel like she was being healthy. And she seemed depressed. It started to be that every time that she came to visit me she would tell me about how difficult it was to date her boyfriend. He would ignore her, not answer her calls. All weekend she would wonder why she hadn't heard from him. I'd listen patiently, but our entire outing would be taken up by her telling me how much she was suffering. And then a few months later she'd visit again and tell me the same things. I tried to tell her that this wasn't good, he wasn't treating her right, but whenever I'd say that I'd be met by anger. Which takes me back to when I met him. She wanted to me to meet her boyfriend for my opinion. Being the blunt person that I am I took her at her word and asked him some frank questions - what makes you like my friend and want to date her? What are your beliefs and goals? I was so angry at his answer. When I asked him what he liked about her he took forever to answer, as if he had to think hard to find a reason. He finally said "well she is really a nagging person." Finally he copped out to saying "I like her smile." I thought he was a big jerk. How could this be the best praise he could find for my friend??? I instantly felt angry towards him. After the lunch my friend contacted me to say that her boyfriend described me as delicate. WHAT??? What kind of mean boyfriend describes a friend in a physical way? Can't he keep his eyes to himself? Also, I thought that was a snide remark because I would have much preferred he commented on something other than my physical appearance. So whenever she told me about how she was suffering from him being irresponsible and/or ignoring her, I felt like what she was saying was in keeping with what I saw of him. Well, she continued in the church and the church teaches submissiveness to men, etc. So she continued to try to get him more indoctrinated in the church and eventually they got engaged. During this time I had been struggling a lot in my personal life from depression, my parents' divorce, and my dad being abusive. My friend sort of learned about this from the grapevine. She started barraging me with evangelistic material. Calls, emails, "sweet notes," and she even mailed me a book LITERALLY TITLED "How to be a Feminine Woman." Everything was under the guise of her caring about me, but when she said "I'm telling my bible study group all about you and how to pray for you," I knew what she really meant is I'm judging you and praying that you don't go to hell. I was already struggling with psychological abuse from my dad that I grew up with so having someone else saying I'd be damned was very upsetting. Being the naive person I was I tried to warn my friend from getting married because I'd seen my mom struggle through an abusive marriage and I saw all the signs in this guy my friend was dating, and all of the dangers of being an "obedient" wife in a heavily cultish church. So I told my friend so, and I think that's why she retaliated by launching an evangelistic war against me. She'd act like she genuinely wanted to know what I thought, and then she'd get angry about it. I thought I was being honest that the guy didn't treat her well but what do I know. She even told me that he was addicted to video games and porn and he didn't like his parents and that he was dropping out of school that she was using scriptures and teaching to get him out of this but he sounded like a very dysfunctional dude whom I wouldn't wish on anyone. Sigh. He even proposed to her in the driveway of her house. Being the idiot that I am, I sucked it up and agreed to be a bridesmaid in her wedding. It was awful. First, she was clearly fighting with her mom. Now I get it. I read in the feeds that the MacArthur church encourages shunning of parents. She was angry at her mom for not being a proper wife and proper Christian, and blaming her mom for issues in her parents' marriage. I found this odd because my friend's family seemed perfectly average to me and then all of a sudden she's shunning her mom. Which is pretty cruel on your wedding day. So first of all she's basically giving her mom the cold shoulder on the wedding day, not wanting to interact. Next she had all the bridesmaids wear black. The music was dirge-like - my mom and her friends who attended were shocked by how depressing the ceremony was. The music was all about us being lowly sinners and not deserving of grace, song after song. No joy, only sadness over sin. The preacher gave a long, long, long sermon seemingly entirely focused on the submission and obedience of the wife. The vows had a lot added in about the obedience of the wife. At the reception I sat where I had been seated. Turns out the bride had set me up to be seated next to the GOC pastor's wife. She immediately asked me about my religious beliefs. I got kind of emotional and said you know this is a hard time in my life and I'd rather not talk about it. She kept pushing the topic even though I clearly didn't want to talk about it. It just struck me as very odd that at a wedding at all places the bridesmaids would make the focus on me and whether I have the right beliefs. I narrowly survived that without bursting into tears. During the wedding speeches the bride made a speech about how her mom was a stay-at-home mom for a period of time and that was the only thing positive she said. I could tell that it was a passive-aggressive point she was making about how she thought her mom should be more feminine. It was a painful and loveless speech to sit through. Then I got up at the end of the night to say bye to the bride and wish her the best on her honeymoon. Instead of smiling saying thanks and hugging me back, she looked at me with hard eyes and said coldly, "I heard about your dad. Are you Christian or not?" (My mom had gotten a restraining order because of a videotape the police saw of my dad physically threatening my dad. As retaliation my dad had told several people in the Christian community about how he was being persecuted). I said, that's not a great topic right now, let's talk about it later. Congrats. I was so shocked that she would bring that up on her wedding night of all times. The next day I ended up curling up in the fetal position and thinking that I wanted to kill myself because the rejection from my friend hurt so bad. I haven't spoken to my friend since. She's called me several times and emailed me, tried to befriend me on Facebook and Linked In. Left sad-sounding messages. But why should I answer when I know she sees things as Us vs. Them? I'm not longer myself, a human being. I'm just an object of her evangelistic quest. I really miss the friend I knew when I was growing up. She was laid-back, fun, would play lightsabers with her brother, was great at math, and didn't worry too much about looking good. Now she's someone I don't even recognize anymore. Reading about the John Macarthur church has helped me understand what happened. She got sucked into this whole thing while on the UCLA campus through the GOC program which is what shocked me. Even at a public university you can get brought into the cult-like church located nearby.
Callie007

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Hi r2z_d-06,

Thanks for sharing your painful story. I was excommunicated from one of these John MacArthur-ite churches, Grace Bible Fellowship of Silicon Valley (renting from the Seventh Day Adventists in Sunnyvale, CA at present). They are cultic. My sister said she was glad they kicked me out, otherwise she thought I might never leave. She too didn't like the person I was becoming.

A. Recruiting University Students For These Cultic Churches

My former church also started a Bible study at the elite, private Stanford University. These NeoCalvinist churches do want high net-worth earners.  They intentionally start these Bible studies at these elite colleges, get a few Christians to join, get them to invite their friends.
The poorer San Jose State was never selected, of course. Not enough money there. 

With the friends, bonds, social times, and peer pressure -- it makes it very hard to leave.

B. Submission in Marriage Vows: Why Are Christians Using Pagan Roman Marriage Contract Law?

My pastors/elders at Grace Bible Fellowship of Silicon Valley, like John MacArthur [my ex-pastor was a graduate of MacArthur's The Master's Seminary] also talked about having brides obey and submit in the wedding vows.

I thought - using my critical thinking skills [something they don't want you to do]:
Not all churches do this? What is the history of this? If it was "Biblical" why aren't other churches doing it?

Answer:  I researched the wedding vows that include a bride's "obey" and "submit".  I learned that they come from pagan Roman marriage contract law and have NOTHING to do with Christianity. Some Christians appropriated them, used to them. Most did not.  This is NOT Christian. It's pagan Rome!

C.  Semi-Arian Heresy: Council on Biblical Manhood Womanhood

Wayne Grudem and Bruce Ware invented a semi-Arian heresy called the Eternal [a lie] Subordination of the Son to justify the subordination of women.  It isn't true and it is a trinitarian heresy. It started being practiced in the late 1990's in conservative churches that were the subject of stealth takeovers by NeoCalvinists, such as Southern Baptist churches. The result of this bad "fruit"? The Southern Baptists now have the highest divorce rate in the nation (Barna study) of any denomination.  This is NOT of God. 
Even atheists have a lower rate of divorce than Complementarian teaching Southern Baptists. 

Owen Stracahan, son-in-law of Bruce Ware (the man behind ESS), recently resigned from the Council on Biblical Manhood Womanhood after being under much pressure for espousing Trinitarian heresy.

Mary Kassian, from Canada, who has promoted Comp for women and being on the Council on Biblical Manhood Womanhood, has been criticized by a Canadian judge for her dishonesty and lack of ethics in a whiplash lawsuit.  The judge did not her credible.

All of the Comp darlings are following. And they have taught lies. Destroying churches, marriages, families, friendships, children, peoples' sense of worth. 

There is a high rate of sexual abuse and domestic violence in these groups as well. The big promoters of it have been felled by sex crimes lawsuits (Bill Gothard and Doug Phillips).

D. Spiritual Carbon Monoxide Poisoning

Your friend is in deep. There is no getting her out.  I refer to this as Spiritual Carbon Monoxide Poisoning.  Her life will implode. Her marriage will implode. The law does not save. Rules don't save. These churches and their beliefs are works-based, not based on the Royal Law of Love, the true mark of a Biblical Church.

E. Resources

There's lots of good resources out there. For Christians who've been the victims of domestic violence, I would recommend A Cry for Justice by pastor Jeff Crippen (Oregon) and Barbara Roberts (she's in Australia).  

There are many blogs that while the hosts here don't agree with all of them, I have found them helpful and they have deprogrammed me. The Wartburg Watch has many conservative Christians who don't buy this Comp nonsense - women and men (many senior citizens) - and can shoot down it's un-Biblicalness and logical fallicies in record speed time. (I appreciate posters Gram3, Lydia, Max, Nancy2, Ken F., Law Prof, Brad/Futurist Guy and others who engage in these serious issues and know about their history. I feel like I'm meeting good friends for coffee. Wow those people know a lot! They helped deprogam me.)

Spiritual Sounding Board is another good blog. The blogger, Julie Anne, is a mom to a large brood of children she homeschooled. When she left a John MacArthur-ite spin-off church in Oregon and started blogging about her abusive pastor, he sued her. She won. 

There's also the Junia Project. Blog, twitter. 

If you're on Twitter, follow some of these main people and you'll get some very good information and deprogramming. There's lots of good books on Spiritual Abuse and egalitarianism.

I'll pray for you and for your friend. Your family too. Thanks for your honest post. 


r2z_d-06

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Hi Callie,

Sorry I'm just getting used to this website and I accidentally reposted. I was trying to edit a typo in my original post.

Thank you for all of your replies. I really appreciate the time that you took in reply and offering all of these resources.

I guess I should clarify that I am currently not suicidal and I see a psychologist twice a week. So don't worry - I am taking care of myself.

Thank you so much for your kindness and concern. 

I will take a look at some of the links that you shared. Thanks!
bjw

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GCC is a cult, and like any cult goes through a series of thought reform steps for new-recruits, which it sounds like your friend is undergoing now.  Based on what I have seen in the past, she is probably paired up with some kind of counselor or mentor (who is also a female) that she has to be held accountable to for sins and "fruits produced" (works done to show evidence of salvation that must constantly increase).  They will increasingly discourage her from reading or viewing anything critical of MacArthur or lordship doctrine, and will discourage her from having friends who do not believe lordship salvation or go to any outside churches.  She will be encouraged to disassociate from anyone who rejects the doctrine more than three times, and will be told to witness to anyone who believes "cheap grace" (any Christianity that disagrees with lordship salvation).

My biggest advice would be to not disparage MacArthur or call GCC a cult in front of her.  Learn as much as you can about it and ask questions to get her to think.  Such as, "If Christ's blood takes away all our sins, why must we be accountable to a counselor or church officials?"  Anything that doesn't make you look like you are critical but gets her thinking back to the pre-cult mindset is what you want.  Try looking at some threads here to see experiences others have had in the cult.

This approach is also effective because this cult is notorious for not revealing everything up front.  If she starts doubting it now, when she learns the more nefarious aspects, she may decide it is not worth going through, as it is a life that eats up all your freedom.  It also keeps people in a constant depression always wondering if they are doing enough to be saved.
watchmanwakes

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Callie007
There are many blogs that while the hosts here don't agree with all of them, I have found them helpful and they have deprogrammed me. The Wartburg Watch has many conservative Christians who don't buy this Comp nonsense - women and men (many senior citizens) - and can shoot down it's un-Biblicalness and logical fallicies in record speed time. (I appreciate posters Gram3, Lydia, Max, Nancy2, Ken F., Law Prof, Brad/Futurist Guy and others who engage in these serious issues and know about their history. I feel like I'm meeting good friends for coffee. Wow those people know a lot! They helped deprogam me.)  


The Wartburg Watch is the enemy of Jesus Christ and His Church.  Its heretical antichrist agenda has already been exposed.  Allow me to copy the introduction to The Wartburg Watch: Feminist and LGBTQ Change Agents.  

 

INTRODUCTION

The Wartburg Watch is a watchman blog started in March 2009 and run by Darlene "Dee" Parsons and Wanda "Deb" Martin who write nearly all of its posts. In the description of who they are, they claim that truth is of utmost importance to them and that among their goals in starting Wartburg Watch was to expose heresy.  

"We are two Christian women who have seriously pursued our faith. We have discovered some disturbing trends within Christendom which compelled us to start TWW. Our goal is to shine a light into the darkness, exposing hypocrisy, heresy, and arrogance while also examining trends that affect the faith in the public square.  Truth and transparency are of utmost importance to us." (L

I became aware of Wartburg Watch when Dee Parsons wrote a post that linked to an article I'd written.  Her post exposed the abuse suffered by a woman and her child at the hands of a pastor who I would describe as being a disciple of John Macarthur.  I had been researching Macarthur for quite some time and was familiar with his doctrines and with the general mind control that exists in his satellite churches. With that knowledge, I commented on that post to the effect that Macarthur was not a Christian, and that evidence indicated he was a Mason and a Druid.  My comments were mocked and my subsequent comments were deleted.  The abused woman was allowed to tell her story, the abusive pastor was "exposed," but any discussion of Macarthur's influence or what I believed to be the true cause for this abuse wasn't allowed.  I then became curious and decided to take a look into Wartburg Watch.  

According to Deb Martin, the inspiration for The Wartburg Watch was Wade Burleson who is The Wartburg Watch's E-Church pastor. (L)  Since Wartburg Watch is a purported Christian watch blog, one would think that its pastor would be biblically sound.  To the contrary, I found that Wade Burleson is a far greater heretic than any of the abusive pastors exposed by Wartburg Watch!  For example, Wade Burleson teaches, among many other heresies, that Jesus Christ is Michael, the Archangel.  

Dee Parsons and Deb Martin are close friends with Wade Burleson and have been guests at his home.  They say that they read his blog religiously and sometimes they copy his articles and post them at Wartburg Watch.  I wonder how they can claim to have a goal to expose heresy and to tell truth while they expose their many blog visitors to Wade Burleson's teachings at least weekly and without warning?  Do Dee Parsons and Deb Martin also believe Jesus Christ is Michael, the Archangel?  Do they believe that God is father and mother and is feminine as their pastor, Wade Burleson, also teaches?  

Of greater concern, I found that Dee Parsons, Deb Martin, and Wade Burleson share a strong feminist agenda to place women as elders and pastors in the church.  And they are not just advocating for women elders and pastors, but for the inclusion of homosexual leaders in the church as well. 

On the surface, Wartburg Watch appears to be on a mission to expose church leaders who have abused their authority and to help the victims of this abuse.  However, the facts show that their real and hidden agenda is undermining God's ordained authority structure in the church in favor of a authority structure which includes both women and homosexuals. 

This report will present evidence that The Wartburg Watch's pastor, Wade Burleson, is a heretic, a government agent, and a Masonic agent.  The evidence also shows that Dee Parsons, Deb Martin, and Wartburg Watch are facilitators who have employed the dialectic process in highlighting and magnifying the problem of abusive male church leaders in order to offer their egalitarian solution which includes women and homosexuals in church leadership.

watch-pray

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The two women who run the The Wartburg Watch blog, Dee Parsons and Deb Martin, only pretend to advocate for victims of homosexual pedophiles as they promote the inclusion of homosexuals in Christian churches. In fact studies have shown that "homosexuals sexually molest young boys with an incidence that is occurring from five times greater than the molestation of girls." Moreover, "Scientific studies confirm a strong pedophilic predisposition among homosexuals," and "the gay press and mainstream homosexual culture even commonly promote sex with children." Homosexuals actively seek out organizations where they will have access to children, such as churches and youth ministries.

In light of her advocacy for homosexuals in church leadership, it seems the height of hypocrisy that Dee Parsons devotes so much of her blog to exposing pedophiles in 'patriarchal' churches. Does she think that homosexual church leaders will report pedophiles to the authorities? In fact, many homosexuals prey on minors, and they seek out places where they have access to young people--such as churches. Furthermore, the homosexual community actively promotes sex with children. Dee Parsons is outraged that Sovereign Grace Ministries did not report pedophiles in their churches, but she would open the church doors to homosexual men and lesbians, many of whom have a preference for children.  

For more info read: 

Report: Pedophilia more common among 'gays'

Crafting Bi/Homosexual Youth: The Hidden Private Face of the Gay Lifestyle

watchmanwakes

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I looked into the Grace On Campus ministry years ago and I recall that Timothy Peters was its leader.  Now I see that he is listed as being on the Grace On Campus Executive Staff.   According to GOC Leadership:

"Tim is a retired sheriff who loves fly fishing and discipling men. Whenever possible, he does both at the same time. Tim has served as an elder at Grace Church, including four years as the chairman of the elder board. Tim and his wife Patti have been serving at Grace on Campus since 2003. They have two children and five grandchildren."

Timothy W Peters was not only the Chairman of the Grace Community Church elder board, but is a former Captain in the Los Angeles Sheriff's Dept now retired after 36 years of service. (L)

Crescenta Valley Station (CVS)
Captain Timothy W. Peters
4554 N. Briggs Ave.
La Crescenta, CA 91214
(818) 248-3464

According to Transparent California, Timothy Peters retired from the Los Angeles Sheriffs in 2008 and receives $184,795.08 in total pension. (L)

I find it of great interest that a former LA Sheriff's Captain became the Chairman of Macarthur's Grace Community Church Elder Board.  Why are there so many men in leadership at Grace Community Church (as well as other evangelical churches) with police or military backgrounds? (see Men With Military/ Police Backgrounds who are/have been in Leadership at Macarthur's Grace Community Church)
 
bjw

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Even back when I was in the LAPD connections were pretty thick as well.  There were quite a few in various positions in the cult.  This has been common practice for other cults as well, such as Sheriff Lee Baca being a Scientologist.  Cults like to hire off-duty cops as security as it gives them a better reputation with the police as well as keeps law enforcement handy when protests happen.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjw
Cults like to hire off-duty cops as security as it gives them a better reputation with the police as well as keeps law enforcement handy when protests happen.


Not only was the Chairman of the Grace Community Church Elder Board a former Captain in the LA Sheriffs, but the head of Macarthur's church security was a Detective Commanding Officer of the LAPD. 


Ted Matthews--Detective Commanding Officer of the LAPD

"Ted has been involved in numerous ministries since his arrival at Grace Community Church in 1999.  Along with his service in Children’s Ministry, Ted also serves on the church security team and teaches at a home and men’s Bible study. He currently serves as security advisor for Children's Ministry. Ted served 30 years with the LAPD before retiring as a detective commanding officer." (Children's Ministry) (L)


bjw

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Quote:
Originally Posted by watchmanwakes


Not only was the Chairman of the Grace Community Church Elder Board a former Captain in the LA Sheriffs, but the head of Macarthur's church security was a Detective Commanding Officer of the LAPD. 


Ted Matthews--Detective Commanding Officer of the LAPD

"Ted has been involved in numerous ministries since his arrival at Grace Community Church in 1999.  Along with his service in Children’s Ministry, Ted also serves on the church security team and teaches at a home and men’s Bible study. He currently serves as security advisor for Children's Ministry. Ted served 30 years with the LAPD before retiring as a detective commanding officer." (Children's Ministry) (L)



Okay, I have a question, what possibly could be the job of a "security advisor for children's ministry."  Does GCC honestly have that many security mishaps with their children's department that they must actually create a position with that title?  I realize they have in-house security and have to create positions at times for all of these off-duty and retired cops that work for them, but they could have thought of a better title than "security advisor for children's ministry." 

watch-pray

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Actually, Bjw, there is a problem in some churches with pedophiles posing as Christian workers and molesting children in church nurseries, Sunday schools and other church youth programs.   So there needs to be tight security in children's ministries; however, there is always the possibility of foxes guarding the hen house.  Take a look at the list of predators in the Southern Baptist Convention with which Grace Community Church has close ties.
mr-specter

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I honestly can't believe I'm writing this. To start off I met this sweet girl through a dating app at UCLA. I met her while I was still in High School. She's the daughter of a pastor, but never seemed to be very religious. We became best friends, one day it was clear that we were more than friends. We both had feelings for each other, but all that changed when she decided to join this fellowship at UCLA by the name of Grace on Campus. Now I am ignorant about this man John Macarthur and about GOC. Though one thing is for sure she was never the same person again. It was almost like mind control, she started to only hang with people from the fellowship and slowly she started to cut off everyone. She began to be hard on herself always saying how she wasn't a good christian. She told me that she had to stop seeing me due to the fact that I wasn't nearly as religious as her. Now it wasnt one of those situations where we were friends for like a month or two. We were friends and lovers for almost 2 years. Every day I couldnt help but feel I was losing her. She was always putting herself down and she honestly seemed lost and confused. In the end one day she just cut me out of her life. She wrote me a letter saying how basically I lived a life of sin, even though I'm just a young man in university myself. I've never been in trouble with the law and I like to think I'm a nice person. All she would ever talk about was GOC and this particular church. I'm upset, I cant help but feel that GOC took the one person I loved. I don't want to force her to be with me, I have accepted that she will never be the same person I fell in love with. I just want to understand what happened? What did GOC do to my friend? What did going to this church do to her? One day I was the perfect guy, the next day I'm a sinner and a bad influence. She would always mention how she was feeling depressed and she would often cry because she was a sinner. I just cant help but feel that GOC is the reason why she changed. I just want some clarification on what happens behind the doors at this fellowship or what kind of things does Macarthur talk about to change the girl I loved. Sorry for this weird question I just don't have anyone else to ask.
watch-pray

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Mr-specter, your former friend has basically joined a cult which has brainwashed her. A former student of John MacArthur's The Masters College has written quite a bit on this forum concerning the college's use of mind control--much like the cult of Scientology--to entrap, abuse and enslave students to a legalistic religious system. You can read some of his sad testimony here: 

http://johnmacarthur.forumchitchat.com/post/education-system-abuse-and-deaths-at-the-masters-college-and-ibex-7227055
Noelle33

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr-specter
I honestly can't believe I'm writing this. To start off I met this sweet girl through a dating app at UCLA. I met her while I was still in High School. She's the daughter of a pastor, but never seemed to be very religious. We became best friends, one day it was clear that we were more than friends. We both had feelings for each other, but all that changed when she decided to join this fellowship at UCLA by the name of Grace on Campus. Now I am ignorant about this man John Macarthur and about GOC. Though one thing is for sure she was never the same person again. It was almost like mind control, she started to only hang with people from the fellowship and slowly she started to cut off everyone. She began to be hard on herself always saying how she wasn't a good christian. She told me that she had to stop seeing me due to the fact that I wasn't nearly as religious as her. Now it wasnt one of those situations where we were friends for like a month or two. We were friends and lovers for almost 2 years. Every day I couldnt help but feel I was losing her. She was always putting herself down and she honestly seemed lost and confused. In the end one day she just cut me out of her life. She wrote me a letter saying how basically I lived a life of sin, even though I'm just a young man in university myself. I've never been in trouble with the law and I like to think I'm a nice person. All she would ever talk about was GOC and this particular church. I'm upset, I cant help but feel that GOC took the one person I loved. I don't want to force her to be with me, I have accepted that she will never be the same person I fell in love with. I just want to understand what happened? What did GOC do to my friend? What did going to this church do to her? One day I was the perfect guy, the next day I'm a sinner and a bad influence. She would always mention how she was feeling depressed and she would often cry because she was a sinner. I just cant help but feel that GOC is the reason why she changed. I just want some clarification on what happens behind the doors at this fellowship or what kind of things does Macarthur talk about to change the girl I loved. Sorry for this weird question I just don't have anyone else to ask.


I understand how painful it is as I lost my family to this cult.  However, I find it ironic (and excuse me for assuming) but you mentioned you were lovers. I assume this means sex.  Who were you having sex with? HER!  So if you are a sinner, so is she! My sister does the same thing to me.  This is classic MacArthur.  My sister has been into this "Lordship Salvation" thing for well over a decade. She lies, manipulates, steals, and cheated on her husband all AFTER she was "saved" but when I mention that she told me she was forgiven.  But I'm not?  He has a way of making you feel dirty and unsaved and question your salvation.  That is Satan's job. Anything resembling Christianity that deviates from what Christ taught needs to be looked at very closely.  He talks fast and uses big words and Seminary lingo to make you feel stupid and make himself appear smart. He hides his lies among the 90% truth so people are easily deceived.
  I know you are hurting and maybe she will see the light one day but at this point all I can say is "You REALLY dodged a bullet!"  RUN and don't look back or you will turn into a pillar of salt.  Don't give up on Jesus.  Give up on MacArthur and find a real Christian church.  I have been in therapy for 8 years because of John Mac and his teachings and I am still afraid to leave my house.  Since my family disowned me, I found out they are mooching off another relative (who is rich) so I was going to leave it in God's hands and I did for 8 years but the timing was right apparently and I spilled it so she doesn't do it to my 90 year old Uncle who has had quadruple bypass.  They are the most dangerous and evil people.  Here are 2 great scriptures that describe what he does: 2 Timothy 3:5 ...having a form of godliness but denying it's power.  Have nothing to do with them!  (I feel like this applies to Mac)  Also 2 Corinthians 11:14 Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.  God has a plan for you and it may be this girl if she comes to her senses or else someone MUCH better. Stay strong.

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mr-specter

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Reply with quote  #15 
Sorry for the late reply, the life of a college student is stressful. I really appreciate the links that were posted and the advice given to me on this forum. I used to blame myself all these months for her leaving. I felt that maybe I wasn't a good Christian or a follower of Christ. However I have learned that as humans we are not perfect and I will continue to seek religious guidance to help me on my journey.To answer the elephant in the room, while we were dating I never had a sexual relationship with her as she was saving herself for marriage and I respected that. However that is not to say we didn't have our heated moments. I have a better understanding now as to what happened to her. I may never be able to love this person the same, but that doesn't mean I wont try to find her down the line. I feel God can give me the strength to find her again and if things don't work out I have no doubt that he will give me the strength to walk away.
bjw

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Reply with quote  #16 
Also, keep spreading the word and let people know what they are getting into before they look into this, and how it uses front groups from colleges, Bible studies, college study groups, and counseling programs.  They advertise as non-denominational but that is a lie, as it leads one way, to MacArthur's lordship belief system. This cult has been effective at snaring in not only Bible believing Christians, but also those who do not have much knowledge of theology and want something new.  College groups are the perfect bait because they are looking for those who are altruistic and want to make a difference, and see that they need some kind of spirituality in their life.  This cult takes full advantage of any inexperience a person may have to fully convince that they are the only truth in all of Christianity.  So, please keep spreading the word and let people know.  Some only have a few books by these authors and do not understand how a church is once it has incorporated these beliefs, as these materials are also sold as bait.

Incidentally, one favorite way of Sun Myung Moon (who just happens to be on MacArthur's money trail chart on watchmanwakes website) to convert people to his cult was through college groups.  They would never use the term "moonie," just Bible Study group for world peace or some other deceptive title.

Similarly, you will never hear the phrases "Lordship Salvation," "Nouthetic Counseling," "Sovereignty of God" or "Restoration Process" in the intro groups for this cult.  I'm willing to bet these college groups go very light on the theology at first in an attempt to get the person into the church.  More than likely another person of the same sex is assigned to be a mentor and to report on the person's progress, and to get them closer and closer to membership class and baptism (if potential recruit to the church) or closer and closer to filling out the contracts (if a potential recruit to TMU or a satellite affiliate).  So, the deception can happen much easier than you think. 
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The Watchman Wakes In Vain
    Except the Lord build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the                 Lord keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.  Psalm 127:1
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