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Callie

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Reply with quote  #51 
Quote:
Originally Posted by watchmanwakes


It's a serious matter that a convicted child pornographer on Megan's List is in church ministry with access to children.  Can you identify this child pornographer and can you provide evidence of his conviction (court docs...the Megan's List) and evidence he was/is in ministry at GBFSV? 


Megan's List has the child pornographer who lives in Cupertino, CA.  He was put in charge of a team of people at church. 

Sex crimes specialists around the world have been extremely critical of the GBFSV pastors/elders for what they did saying that sex offenders should NEVER be put in any kind of trustworthy or leadership position. And that they should be ministered separately from the regular congregants and from children for safety.  

He has also been given access to go to all GBFSV events, including things like the weekly Bible study I attended.  Parents brought their young children to the Bible study.  No one in the room, save me, knew that this man was a felon, a Megan's List registrant, and a convicted child pornographer. 

I don't have court documents on his case. He's on Megan's List. I have spoken to the Sheriff's sex offenders' task force about him, they are his supervising law enforcement agency. 

I did watch the sex offender run his hands through a friends' little boy's (age 4) hair. Friends had no idea the man was a sex offender and didn't see it. Pastors/elders said it was no big deal and it was fine. I said, "It's a VERY BIG DEAL. It's called grooming. It's how sex offenders get children to trust them."


Callie

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Reply with quote  #52 
OK, two more attorneys have just answered my legal question about whom could be sued at GBFSV if this sex offender, or another one harms a child. 

All three CA attorneys said that yes the pastors/elders can be sued as individuals as can the church.

More attorneys will probably respond by tomorrow to my question.
watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #53 
Callie,

I know individuals can be sued.  I know a church that has incorporated can be sued.  This has not been disputed.  For the last time, had GBFSV not incorporated, it could not be sued.  Furthermore, the reason churches incorporate is because they take the advice of attorneys who don't know the law (that all churches are tax exempt without incorporating).  Let's move on from this issue...
Callie

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Reply with quote  #54 
Thanks IDChristian for your encouragement.  I am pretty careful of all groups.  I am glad to be out of Grace Bible Fellowship of Silicon Valley in Sunnyvale, CA. 

My family is thankful I'm out as are my friends. I really identified with some of the letters I've read here about people who had relatives who went to Grace Community Church, including children, who started distancing themselves from relatives, judging them, shunning them. 

The daughter who wanted her parent to distance herself from a Catholic organization that she as a Protestant Christian was doing volunteer work with is despicable.

When I was at GBFSV one of the senior pastor Cliff McManus' friends, a bizarre retired woman with a hateful attitude about everything, unleashed a tirade on me for doing my laundry on a Sunday after church. She called to ask me a question about something. Asked what I was doing. Me: "Laundry." I got a long tirade about how I wasn't "obeying the Sabbath." We don't even believe that!

I had helped a young mother who has a reoccurrence of cancer, chemo treatment, a husband and several young children. The mom's hair was falling out and she was sick from chemo.  What is more important to Jesus? Helping a cancer stricken mom on chemo or telling her, "tough luck, I've got laundry to do according to the Pharisees at Grace Bible Fellowship of Silicon Valley."
watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #55 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Callie
When I was at GBFSV one of the senior pastor Cliff McManus' friends, a bizarre retired woman with a hateful attitude about everything, unleashed a tirade on me for doing my laundry on a Sunday after church. She called to ask me a question about something. Asked what I was doing. Me: "Laundry." I got a long tirade about how I wasn't "obeying the Sabbath." We don't even believe that!


Since Cliff McManus was educated by John Macarthur, he would likely follow reformed theology/Calvinism.  The woman at GBFSV who reproved you for doing laundry on "the sabbath" is a Judaizer just like the Pharisees who rebuked Jesus for healing a man on their sabbath.  Why is this woman a Judaizer?  It may be instructive to know that Calvinism is a front for Judaism and that Calvin was a Jew. 

“Contrary to general belief, Calvinism is of Jewish origin. It was deliberately conceived to split the adherents of the Christian religions and divide the people. Calvin’s real name was Cohen! When he went from Geneva to France to start preaching his doctrine he became known as Cauin. Then in England it became Calvin. History proves that there is hardly a revolutionary plot that wasn’t hatched in Switzerland; there is hardly a Jewish revolutionary leader who hasn’t changed his name.


At B’nai B’rith celebrations held in Paris, France, in 1936 Cohen, Cauvin, or Calvin, whatever his name may have been, was enthusiastically acclaimed to have been of Jewish descent...

“‘We are the Fathers of all Revolutions, even of those which sometimes happen to turn against us. We are the supreme Masters of Peace and War. We can boast of being the Creators of the REFORMATION ! Calvin was one of our Children; he was of Jewish descent, and was entrusted by Jewish authority and encouraged with Jewish finance to draft his scheme in the Reformation (which was to convince Christians it was alright to charge usury and other damnable heresies which are in violation of God’s Laws). (John Calvin)

In anticipation of being labeled an "anti-semite," the quotes above were taken from speeches made at a B'nai B'rith convention in 1936. 

Callie

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Reply with quote  #56 
Well the MacArthurite churches are all law and no love, no Gospel. 
It's rule upon rule upon rule at these insufferable churches. 

It's an elite class of pastors/elders - like the Roman Catholic Church & like John Calvin's tyrannical control of Geneva, Switzerland.

We even had church staff at Grace Bible Fellowship of Silicon Valley (Silicon Valley) who fled GBFSV for other churches.  And of course many families, married couples, and even singles caught on and fled. 

Any of us who stood up for anything - a wife who left GBF for another church because she was troubled by how it was run/bad theology/authoritarianism, a doctor in his 70s (happily married, father to grown children), and me - were threatened by the GBFSV pastors/elders behind closed doors, banned from church property (GBFSV rents from the Seventh Day Adventists) and then me (over a Megan's List sex offender they brought to GBF without telling anyone as well as their other controls over my life) were publicly disciplined before all members by senior pastor/elder Cliff McManus who told church members that the pastors/elders had "worked with [name of church member] for a long time to no avail."  It's really a euphemism for trying to make Christians into the image of pastors/elders, getting them to bow and scrape, and not respecting the priesthood of all believers or the work of the Holy Spirit in believers' lives.  We are to be a bunch of Stepford Wives. Robots.

GBFSV also uses Mark Dever's (Capitol Hill Baptist Church, Washington, D.C.), 9Marks organization materials and books about "9 Marks of a Healthy Church". 9Marks is all about authoritarian control by an elite class of pastors/elders like Dever. (He's constantly whining about "don't let members leave through the back exits of churches."  He arrogantly blames members instead of arrogant pastors like himself. OK, Mark, they obviously don't like you or your elders if they need to flee through the back exits. Don't blame them, pal, blame yourself for not doing what God said in the Bible. Do some honest self-reflection, Mark, because you're not a humble pastor like Jesus calls pastors to be.") Mark Dever proposed the Membership Covenants as "getting back to Biblical basics".  Nonsense! Jesus required people to sign how many pages to follow him? The Apostle Paul required how many pages be signed. Answer: 0 pages. No binding agreements. If a person wanted to leave, they were free to leave.

Any critical thinking is deemed to be insubordination by these insufferable pastors/elders.  The Bereans would have been brought up on "Church Discipline" charges.

There is a growing backlash against Dever and 9Marks (also called by critics 9Marx and "Hotel California" for Christians' inability to leave 9Marks churches, GBFSV is also in 9Marks) for the incredible destruction they have brought to Christians' lives. 
Callie

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Reply with quote  #57 
Update: I just got a post in a legal blog from a licensed CA attorney who specializes in personal injury. He said that the Grace Bible Fellowship of Silicon Valley pastors/elders/founders can be personally sued and held liable if any child at the church gets sex abused by the Megan's List sex offender or another.
watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #58 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Callie
Update: I just got a post in a legal blog from a licensed CA attorney who specializes in personal injury. He said that the Grace Bible Fellowship of Silicon Valley pastors/elders/founders can be personally sued and held liable if any child at the church gets sex abused by the Megan's List sex offender or another.


That would make sense.  Do you know if the sex offender is still there at GBFSV? 
Callie

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Reply with quote  #59 
Last I heard the Megan's List sex offender was still at Grace Bible Fellowship of Silicon Valley. (I gave all of the information to the Sheriff's sex offenders' task force about what the GBFSV pastors/elders were doing to protect and enable this sex offender. I also gave it to the California Attorney General's Office.)

The larger issue - besides Cliff McManus, Bob Douglas, Sam Kim, and Tim Wong (pastors/elders) dismissing child porn and a convicted child pornographer - is why they won't vet a felon with their supervising law enforcement agency?  Do due diligence. Oh, because this felon/sex offender is their personal friend and they visited him in prison. And it's not a big deal to them. 

Just wicked.

Say a few words about Jesus, get access to kids.

That's why the sex abuse of children is the No. 1 reason that churches are sued every single year, year after year, according to attorney Richard Hammar at Church Law & Tax. He researches the lawsuits against churches.
gesundelehre

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Reply with quote  #60 

@Callie
sry, i know its a boit offtopic, but the church you attended teaches the most evil doctrine that probably exists out there. The doctrine I speak of is called Eternal Security (ES) also known as Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS). Please go check out this material here on that topic, because this doctrine truly is NOT BIBLICAL and is truly an EXTREME license to sin.

Check out this site here, here you'll find the truth: http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/eternal-security.htm

If you're still unsre, you might want to go through this questionnaire with your bible in your hand:
http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/question.htm


Quote from the Website of Grace Bible Fellowship of Silicon Valley:
Section 10. Security: We teach that all the redeemed, once saved, are kept by God’s power and are thus secured in Christ forever; believers who are truly regenerate cannot lose their salvation, or become unregenerate (Sourde of quote: http://www.gbfsv.org/gbf-statement-of-faith)

eternal-security-false-gospel-counterfeit-grace.jpg 

Greetings Simon

PS: For a list of false teachers, you might want to visit http://gesundelehrewiki.bplaced.net/doku.php?id=category_false_teachers

watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #61 
The subject of eternal security makes two verses come to mind. 

"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." (John 10:28).  This verse is used to argue for eternal security.

"Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit." (John 15:2).  This verse is used to argue against eternal security.  Only born again Christians can be branches in Christ, this verse says that if they don't bear fruit, they can be taken away.

That's my two cents worth.







bjw

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Reply with quote  #62 
Gesund,

Sorry, I don't normally like to contradict people, but as this church has adopted Lordship Salvation I can assure you the "eternal security" they teach is not the one you are thinking of.  This cult is very clever at redefining terms and then burying the true meaning under layers upon layers of books you must read before understanding it.  They do not hold to a "once saved, always saved" position.  What their tradition calls eternal security comes from their "Sovereignty of God" doctrine, a rework of Calvin's predestination.  

God put a spark in you to seek Him before you were born, and you will show faith in God, accept Christ, and pursue Him until finally finding how to enter a lordship commitment.  From there you must show works, increasing in your works you show over time always getting better and better.  If you don't increase your works or sin more than three times in a row you are shunned by all other Christians and God turns his back on you and won't hear your prayers.  You must confess these to a counselor to be restored or you will be punished by God if you die first.  If you fail to repent despite the counseling or reject lordship doctrine you are considered unsaved, in that you failed to accept Christ in the first place.  So, you did not have the so-called eternal security to begin with.  They only use this term because people raised in Christianity know it and it gives the cult an air of legitimacy. It is probably closer to arminian if it were Christian.

They redefine other terms as well, like grace is your opportunity to obey and enter the lordship commitment.  Believe (pisteo) is synonymous with obey.  Accepting Jesus as lord is not what other Christians call it, but refers to entering what I described above.  It is a hyper-legalistic works salvation that involves counseling.  It is the complete opposite of antinomian, or "sin all you want" doctrine.  If you told someone at GCC you believe "once saved, always saved" you would be put on the restoration process and sent to counseling.

bjw

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Reply with quote  #63 
Quote:
Originally Posted by watchmanwakes
The subject of eternal security makes two verses come to mind. 

"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." (John 10:28).  This verse is used to argue for eternal security.

"Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit." (John 15:2).  This verse is used to argue against eternal security.  Only born again Christians can be branches in Christ, this verse says that if they don't bear fruit, they can be taken away.

That's my two cents worth.







I like these verses, its the complete opposite of what Lordship doctrine calls fruit bearing. We bear fruit because we remain in Him. There is no contest to see who can bear more fruit, and man cannot be our judge. They can be taken away, but He is the one who produces the fruit in us, a far cry from telling college kids they'll go to hell for not going on a mission.
bjw

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Reply with quote  #64 
Just to show what I was saying about them believing a different eternal security, this quote the above poster gave from the church's doctrinal statement :
believers who are truly regenerate cannot lose their salvation, or become unregenerate (Sourde of quote: http://www.gbfsv.org/gbf-statement-of-faith)-end quote
This is the carot they constantly dangle over you. It's all about getting you to constantly doubt your salvation and keep you a slave. There is never any assurance you won't later find out you were "self-deceived " as they put it. This doctrinal statement is probably used constantly to tell members they were never "truly regenerate. " Also, keep in mind your friends must report everything they see you do, so they can get 3 things on you in no time if they want.

couragehonor

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Reply with quote  #65 
Hi Calli,
Glad you are posting your story! By the way, HI Ken Ramey!!!!! I am Billy’s mother the one you have been reading about at the wartburg watch. I'm glad you are exposing these vipers. I'm grateful for these blogs. This is a great place!!!! The blogger here helped expose some of LBC' S ungodly activities.
bjw

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Reply with quote  #66 
Also, consider this, we now have people all over the world complaining that this cult has infiltrated their churches, even as far as Italy. Is it really that much of a stretch to link this cult to these other nefarious activities? They will cover up crimes, accuse people of false crimes, spy on people, use violence and intense confrontation, and hide the true doctrines from prospective converts. With all of this, ask yourself, what else is there we have not yet heard about? Too many people who have never met are telling the same stories, so there is something very wrong with this cult.
watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #67 
Great points, bjw.  "There is something very wrong with this cult."  But to find out why something is very wrong, we better not take into consideration Macarthur and the evidence he's a Freemason.  Instead, according to Wartburg Watch, the cult needs to "consult Boz T," Billy Graham's grandson.   
watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #68 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjw
  From there you must show works, increasing in your works you show over time always getting better and better.  If you don't increase your works or sin more than three times in a row you are shunned by all other Christians and God turns his back on you and won't hear your prayers.  You must confess these to a counselor to be restored or you will be punished by God if you die first.  If you fail to repent despite the counseling or reject lordship doctrine you are considered unsaved, in that you failed to accept Christ in the first place.  


This "doctrine" you describe here is aberrant and cultic.  Just substitute obedience for works and substitute disobedience for sin.  "You must show obedience to the church leadership, increasing in obedience over time, and if you disobey leadership 3 times in a row, then you will be shunned and told God has left you.  Confess to a church counselor to be restored and to be accepted back into their cult." 
MyrtleforBriar

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Reply with quote  #69 
Callie,

As a former cult member (not a Macarthur church but one with calvinist roots) let me say how very sorry I am that you were put through these humiliations.  My family were in a very very similar cult for 15 years and the behaviour, excuses, lies, reasoning and abuse is identical.  I know exactly how you feel and what you went through.  It took us two years after we left to even be able to read our bibles again we were so devastated.  I am glad you have some help and support on this blog.  We left in 2004 and there were no support groups online at all.  What you have to watch now of course are the counterfeit support sites like Wartburg and others who will only accept you if you adhere to their way of seeing things.

It seems that whenever authoritarian groups spring up from false theology and satanically inspired (or infested) persons there are all manner of ugly and destructive consequences.  THe worst of it is that the abuse continues after you leave with the character assassinations and shunning and continual reassurances to the former congregation that you 'left us because you were never of us'.  Depending on how long you stay in these groups, you lose not only years of your life, but you lose friends you have known for decades, your history, your children's friends and history, your former 'support group' and your trust in people.  One ex-cult member I spoke to years ago on a forum said her 'truster was broken'. 

Be encouraged though, that God does heal your broken heart and He will minister to you through other genuine Christians.  I pray that you will continue to find that comfort and help, here and other places.

prayers and love in Christ,

MyrtleforBriar

PS.

On the subject of eternal security, we listened to a tape of John Macarthur testifying about his own 'salvation' on the weekend (we are in Australia).

Macarthur's interviewer Phil Johnson made a point of asking him if he could remember when he was converted and made a commitment to the Lord.  Macarthur said he couldn't, he had never been able to and that it didn't bother him that he couldn't.  He also said he had always believed, couldn't remember a time when he didn't believe and that 'for all he knew' he loved the Lord and was committed to Him.  It wasn't until I realised that Calvinists believe in unconditional election that I realised the guy doesn't actually think he needs to 'be saved' like the rest of the evangelical church, that's only for those stupidheads who believe they have to confess that they are sinners and cling to the Cross of Calvary and be washed in the precious blood of the Lamb.  No wonder these people form cults and beat others up, if they are once saved always saved, they can do what they like and its all good!
watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #70 
Welcome to the forum MyrtleforBriar,

Wartburg Watch is now "exposing" a Macarthur-ite church led by Ken Ramey. But comments made that connect the abusive nature of this church with John Macarthur (or with evidence he's a Mason) are not allowed.  Callie, who was angered by my assertion that Masons conspire to destroy Christianity, now comments at Wartburg Watch and "adheres to their way of seeing things" by referring to her ex-church as "ex-NeoCal" and no longer as "ex-Macarthur-ite."   

MyrtleforBriar

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Reply with quote  #71 
Watchman,

I am sorry to hear that Callie has been influenced in this way, but it actually doesn't surprise me.  I used to run a forum for ex-cult members it lasted 6 weeks.  There was so much 'controlled opposition' on my site by ex cult members who actually were in bed with atheists, that it imploded.  Ex-cult members are very very vulnerable, and open to being blown about by every wind of doctrine.  They really need to find Jesus all over again and in fact what they are really looking for is another group to replace the one they lost.  Even better if the dynamics of the group mirror the last one they were in.

Honestly, its been 12 years since we left and it has taken all of that time for our minds to be renewed.  The spiritual forces behind these groups and men like John MacArthur go deep into people's souls and literally, excuse the expression, rape them.  When that happens the devastation is terrible, and people ricochet between anger, fear and guilt at having left for many years afterwards.  In my experience, and I have talked to dozens of people who left our old cult church, ex-cult members are more likely to go back to an abusive group than to find a healthy one.  They will adhere to group think much faster than anyone else would because their brains are used to it. Hence Callie's use of key words like Neo Cal.

It will actually take her years to be able to recognise the full impact of what John MacArthur did to her because its hard for her to recognise him for what he is.  Even now, after all the abuse, she will find herself excusing it and the church and thinking in ways which minimise the pain and damage.  I pray that she will find the truth before much longer.  I really don't think that we have that much more time left. 

Men like Mr. MacArthur will reap what they have sown.  Its the victims like Callie who are so deeply spiritually damaged that are the evidence of the terrible nature of these places.

Frankly, the key thing that tipped me off with MacArthur was the 'temple guards'.  No faith there I am afraid, just terrible fear of death and judgement.  He is not saved and he is not part of the kingdom of God.

bjw

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Reply with quote  #72 
That's ironic she's only identifying the church with Calvin and not MacArthur, when many Calvinists disagree with MacArthur, and MacArthur even threatened some Calvinist employees with firings for not giving up preterism.  MacArthur is Zionist in eschatology and sees preterism as a dangerous heresy, his expert on Jewish Studies Will Varner even called the preterist viewpoint a "cancer to the church."  It is more like MacArthur's churches have borrowed from Calvin and not the other way around.  Besides, the TWW online minister is a preterist, right?
watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #73 
Yes, The Wartburg Watch's pastor, Wade Burleson, is a preterist.  The following examples taken from Wade's blog show that he believes that Daniel's prophecy of the future Antichrist refers to King Herod and that the destruction of the heavens and earth referred to in Matt 24 and 2 Peter 3 occurred before 70 AD.
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Daniel 11:36) “And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvelous things against the God of gods ...

The description of the king who prospers and exalts himself above every God is a reference to the rise of King Herod the Great, who put an end to Maccabean (Hasmonean Jewish) rule of Judea. Herod was made King of the Jews by the Roman Senate in 39 B.C. but it took him three years to defeat the Maccabeans and gain control of Jerusalem in 36 B.C. Herod's allegience throughout his reign as King of the Jews was to Rome. (link)
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"The early Christians clearly understood that God was coming in judgment to end "the Jewish age" (Matthew 24:3). Jesus plainly told His disciples that "not one stone" would be left upon the other at the Temple in Jerusalem. He said that "the Jewish age" would be destroyed, and He used language of the destruction of the "heavens and earth" (Matthew 24:29) as the nomenclature for the end of this Jewish age. Within a generation of Jesus speaking these words (Matthew 24:34), Jerusalem, the Temple, the age of the Jews, and the destruction of the "heavens and earth" occurred (in 70 AD), fulfilling the prophecies of Matthew 24 and Isaiah 24 regarding the end of the Jewish age. Thus, the LAW OF THE OLD COVENANT WAS ABOLISHED--precisely the way Jesus said it would be in Matthew 5:17-18, because "heaven and earth" (the Old Covenant) passed away" (link)
-----------------------------------------

The great theologian John Owen writes about Peter's prediction (pre-70 AD) in II Peter 3 regarding the end of the "heavens and earth:"

"I affirm that the heavens and earth here intended in this prophecy of Peter, the coming of the Lord, the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men, mentioned in the destruction of that heaven and earth, do all of them relate, not to the last and final judgment of the world, but to that utter desolation and destruction that was to be made of the Judaical church and state". (link)





watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #74 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjw
It is more like MacArthur's churches have borrowed from Calvin and not the other way around. 


It seems that Macarthur will use anything that works for mind control...whether it's taken from Calvin, Rick Warren (his singles ministries were following Purpose Driven), or even Scientology. 
watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #75 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjw
Besides, the TWW online minister is a preterist, right?


Wade Burleson is a preterist and though The Wartburg Watch refers to Calvinists as Calvinistas, its administrator, Deb, said, "Wade Burleson is Calvinistic in his soteriology..." 
watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #76 

Dee is the administrator of The Wartburg Watch.  Commenting on a Wartburg Watch post exposing Macarthur-ite, Ken Ramey, Bob J gave a link that showed evidence John Macarthur is a Freemason.  In response to that comment, Dee stated the link given is "bizarre" and the information therein is "baloney" and "hogwash" containing "allegations" some Christians are Masons. 
-----------------------------------------
dee UNITED STATESon
Sun Feb 21, 2016 at 06:08 PM said:


@
Bob J:
That is a bizarre link. It is just another screed on freemasonry and allegations that certain leaders are Masons. It’s baloney and Christians should be careful not to fall for such conspiracy hogwash.

 

Callie007

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Reply with quote  #77 
Whenever former members of Grace Bible Fellowship of Silicon Valley (renting from the Seventh Day Adventists in Sunnyvale, CA at present) post negative reviews about GBFSV and warnings on YELP, they are deleted,
no matter how sanitized.  So GBF has top stars, and that's a lie.  It's a dangerous, destructive, church with incredibly dangerous pastors/elders who openly lie to church members about other Christians. I was lied about before hundreds and there isn't a shred of truth to it. (Ditto for the lies that other members say the GBF pastors/elders told about them to hundreds of members.)

Here is my YELP review which was deleted.  

It was very disturbing to be a member of this church and to see the level of mistreatment shown by the GBF pastors/elders to adult Christians, an iron-fisted authoritarian control over adult Christians' lives and demands for "obedience." There were excommunications and shunnings ordered of dear Christians for any independent thought.

Grace Bible Fellowship of Silicon Valley is one of the growing number of authoritarian, NeoCalvinist churches spreading across the U.S. and it's not *Biblical*.

*Heavy Shepherding. GBFSV practices the 1970's heavy-Shepherding movement's un-Biblical control of Christians' lives by the pastors/elders. The Florida founders of this movement repented for its abuses and un-Biblicalness. The GBF pastors/elders have not repented and the damage is growing in the lives of the Body of Christ at GBF. 
GBFSV copies the model of Mark Dever (Capitol Hill Baptist Church, Washington, D.C.
9Marks organization. It is a heavily criticized model, including by Conservative Christians, who have said that there is only ONE Biblical mark of a healthy church: Love. The other 9Marks are un-Biblical and it's the Heavy Shepherding Movement all over again with new language.

*Membership Covenants. Members are told to sign them because they're *Biblical* and back to a Biblical basic. In point of fact they aren't Biblical and are used to exert authoritarian control over members' lives. Jesus required people to sign how many pages to follow Him? Correct answer: 0 pages.

*Congregational vote. GBFSV wants your money but doesn't believe in a true Biblical church honoring the Holy Spirit's work in Christians lives and giftedness. It is more authoritarian control exerted by a few yes-men over the Body of Christ, hobbling the power of the Holy Spirit to truly work. I will never go to a church again that is run like GBF or any others like it. I will never give money to one again.

*Women. GBF pastors/elders promote Complementarian/Patriarchy doctrine and that women are to "obey" and to "submit" and basically be second class citizens. At GBFSV they live under the old Covenant and not the new one we are to have in Christ. GBF pastors/elders espouse the Council on Biblical Manhood Womanhood which teaches a Semi-Arian Heresy by Bruce Ware and Wayne Grudem called the Eternal [a lie] Subordination of the Son to justify the subordination of women. It is untrue and it is trinatarian heresy. GBF has put this man-made doctrine on par with The Gospel. If you reject Comp you reject The Gospel. Nonsense. 

*Teaching. GBFSV does not permit Godly women to teach the Word of God. They base this on the writing of the Apostle Paul. Paul wrote Timothy about one woman [original text in Greek said "the woman"] to teach one man error. Paul wanted her to learn correctly first. The issue wasn't her being a woman, the issue was error - and that would be true if it was a man or a woman. Manipulative anti-woman Bible translators conveniently changed the text to something Paul never said: I don't permit a woman [plural, all women] to teach. 

*Nouthetic Counseling. GBFSV pastors/elders believe that Bible is sufficient counsel for everything. They have no professional training and licensing, do not follow California law, and frequently cross over the line into the Unauthorized Practice of Medicine (a crime in California that can be prosecuted as a misdemeanor or a felony). This bogus form of non-counseling comes from the un-trained Jay Adams and his books. It should be called what it is: malpractice. Examples of the GBF pastors/elders doing same were: not getting an older woman alcoholic to the care of a physician to supervise her treatment and spending months with members discussing "gossip" and drawing pictures on the blackboard. In the end this woman, her adult children, and church members were harmed. 

Additionally, the GBFSV pastors/elders held me responsible for the genetically inherited brain disorder - Dyslexia - of a woman church member. That woman, like the GBFSV pastors/elders, does not believe in medical care and says that Jesus could heal her if He wanted to. He could, but He hasn't. He gave her medical care and special groups, which she has refused to use for decades. Instead she can't remember entire events and accuses other people like me of lying. Dyslexia isn't just a reading problem but a memory problem involving short-term memory problems, working memory problems, and auditory memory problems. 

Excommunications/Shunnings/Stalking. A godly woman left GBF for a saner church and was harassed by church members on the orders of the GBF pastors/elders. A godly doctor was excommunicated for dissenting in private. I was excommunicated because the GBF pastors/elders blamed me for someone's memory problems. A truly bizarre church!!!

*Credentials. Snr pstr's *Ph.D*. is from a MO. diploma mill.

**************************
I learned that I know more than I thought I did & I will never listen to a bunch of men
again.


[Additional note: I also was excommunicated over the issue of the pastors/elders' friend a Megan's List sex offender/child pornographer. The pastors/elders said he was "coming off Megan's List because he said so." His supervising law enforcement agency, the Santa Clara County Sheriff (CA) sex offenders' task force called that story "all lies" and "total lies". An alarmed Sheriff contacted the California Attorney General's Office which maintains my state's (CA) Megan's List. The CA Attorney General also confirmed the GBF pastors/elders' (Cliff McManis, Sam Kim, Bob Douglas, and Tim Wong) was "all lies" and "total lies". 


watch-pray

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Reply with quote  #78 
Quote:
Originally posted by Callie007

*Teaching. GBFSV does not permit Godly women to teach the Word of God. They base this on the writing of the Apostle Paul. Paul wrote Timothy about one woman [original text in Greek said "the woman"] to teach one man error. Paul wanted her to learn correctly first. The issue wasn't her being a woman, the issue was error - and that would be true if it was a man or a woman. Manipulative anti-woman Bible translators conveniently changed the text to something Paul never said: I don't permit a woman [plural, all women] to teach. 


Callie, it seems you got this misinterpretation of 1 Timothy 2:11,12 from Wade Burleson, the false teacher who teaches that Jesus Christ is Michael the Archangel and that God is father and mother and feminine. Burleson also denies the saving power of the blood of Jesus Christ, rejects the doctrine of Hell and his church is a model social gospel Communitarian church.  

In the Greek, 1 Timothy 2:11,12 must be translated as follows:

11 Let μανθανω a woman γυνη learn μανθανω in εν silence ησυχια with εν all πας subjection υποταγη

12 But δε I suffer επιτρεπω not ου a woman γυνη to teach διδασκω, nor ουδε to usurp authority αυθεντεω over a man ανερ, but αλλα to be ειναι in εν silence ησυχια."

Strong's Greek Dictionary states that the Greek word γυνη is translated "a woman."

"1135. γυνη gune - 
probably from the base of 1096; a woman; specially, a wife:—wife, woman."

The New Analytical Greek Lexicon also states that γυνη refers to a woman, that is, preceded by the indefinite article "a," not the definite article "the":

"1135. γυνη,...nominative singular feminine noun.... a woman, Matt. 5:28, et al.; a married woman, wife, Matt. 5:31, 32, 14:3, et al.; in the vocative ω γύναι, O woman! an ordinary mode of addressing females under every circumstance; met. used of the Church, as united to Christ, Rev. 19:7; 21:9"

Strong's Greek Dictionary also states that the Greek word ανερ is translated "a man."

435. ανερ aner - a primary word (compare 444); a man (properly as an individual male):—fellow, husband, man, sir.

The New Analytical Greek Lexicon agrees:

"435. ανερ...nominative singular masculine noun.... a male, person of full age and stature, as opposed to a child or female, 1 Cor. 13:11 et al.; a husband, Matt. 1:16, et al.; a man, human being, individual, Luke 11:31, et al...."

Therefore, 1 Timothy 2:12 is a clear command that a woman (any woman) is not permitted to teach or to usurp authority over a man (any man). There is no specific woman ("the" woman) or man mentioned, as Wade Burleson falsely teaches.

Callie007

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Reply with quote  #79 
@watch-pray,

I respect that these are your beliefs. 

I didn't get them from Wade Burleson, they are from plenty of other sources. 

We were given a command to fulfill the Great Commission. We were given the Holy Spirit and gifts for all of the church. Around the world, for thousands of years, women have carried The Gospel. There are women who pastor secret house churches in China and The Gospel has flourished.  That has been true since Biblical times.

The rocks would cry out if women didn't.  

I will never sit in a church again, or give money to one, in which the gifts the Holy Spirit gave Christians - men AND women - are not fully utilized.  And I'm a conservative Christian.  

These teachings about women are akin to radical Islam and their mistreatment of women. 


Callie007

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Reply with quote  #80 
By the way, I appreciate those who have experience with the heavy-handed Grace Community Church, John MacArthur's network, and its schools (The Master's Seminary, The Master's College) and mind-control techniques.
And then there's Nouthetic Counseling - the Bible is sufficient counsel for everything, proposed by Jay Adams in his book, a crime in my state (CA) for the Unauthorized Practice of Medicine. That is so dumb and dangerous, and completely illegal in CA where I live. CA is very strict about this and these pastors/elders face jail/prison time for that.

On another note, for those here who dislike people of Jewish descent, I respectfully disagree. Jesus was Jewish. Mary was Jewish. Joseph was Jewish. Their family history was Jewish. I have many dear Jewish friends around the world. I have Jewish relatives by marriage. They are lovely, lovely people. 

Perhaps some here live in more isolated places and don't know good people, so let prejudices take over.  
I pray that will change in your life.


bjw

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Reply with quote  #81 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Callie007
By the way, I appreciate those who have experience with the heavy-handed Grace Community Church, John MacArthur's network, and its schools (The Master's Seminary, The Master's College) and mind-control techniques.
And then there's Nouthetic Counseling - the Bible is sufficient counsel for everything, proposed by Jay Adams in his book, a crime in my state (CA) for the Unauthorized Practice of Medicine. That is so dumb and dangerous, and completely illegal in CA where I live. CA is very strict about this and these pastors/elders face jail/prison time for that.

On another note, for those here who dislike people of Jewish descent, I respectfully disagree. Jesus was Jewish. Mary was Jewish. Joseph was Jewish. Their family history was Jewish. I have many dear Jewish friends around the world. I have Jewish relatives by marriage. They are lovely, lovely people. 

Perhaps some here live in more isolated places and don't know good people, so let prejudices take over.  
I pray that will change in your life.



I agree with you that nouthetic counseling is malpractice, and Adams and MacArthur borrowed some of their garbage from Scientology.  The courts have tried to stop this garbage for years but have failed because cult lawyers always trot out the "faith healing" and "freedom of religion" defense.  Google Ken Nally and Lisa McPherson and you'll see the courts have yet to recognize malpractice in deaths involving cults trying to treat psychosis.

As for the Jew issue, I have not researched this issue as much as watchmanwakes and watchpray have, but it appears they are against the infiltration of merovingian conspirators and zionism into religion and politics, and their role in the last days prophecy.  It doesn't seem like hate speech, it is opposition to what is similar to the Pharisees opposed by Jesus in His day.  So, the people they oppose also oppose Christianity.
watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #82 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Callie007

On another note, for those here who dislike people of Jewish descent, I respectfully disagree. Jesus was Jewish. Mary was Jewish. Joseph was Jewish. Their family history was Jewish. I have many dear Jewish friends around the world. I have Jewish relatives by marriage. They are lovely, lovely people. 

Perhaps some here live in more isolated places and don't know good people, so let prejudices take over.  
I pray that will change in your life.


Jesus Christ was Jewish and he warned us about the Jews who are not but do lie and are the Synagogue of Satan (Rev 2:9, 3:9).  Jesus Christ exposed the Jews of His time who had rejected God and His Word in favor of Babylonian witchcraft which today is called the Kabbalah, the basis of Freemasonry.  And Jesus Christ has commanded us to warn the brethren of Kabbalist Jews and Masons who masquerade as Christian leaders in order to destroy His Church. 
watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #83 
To Callie,

This forum won't be used to promote heresy or false teachings which is your intention.  Nor will it be used to accuse this forum's members of antisemitism, nor will it be used to promote antichristian web-blogs like The Wartburg Watch, at which you are a frequent commenter, and whose administrators teach that Jesus Christ is Michael, the Archangel, and whose true agenda is to bring women and homosexuals into church leadership (see The Wartburg Watch: Feminist and LGBTQ Change Agents). 

Watchmanwakes
watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #84 
Watch-pray,

Thank you for clearly refuting Callie's assertion (lie) that "manipulative anti-woman Bible translators conveniently changed the text to something Paul never said." 

It's amazing the lengths to which these zealous feminists will go to achieve their agenda.  Since being refuted, Callie has now, incredibly, likened God's prohibition of women teaching in His Church to radical Islam:  

"These teachings about women are akin to radical Islam and their mistreatment of women." 
kr2726

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Reply with quote  #85 
Callie said her yelp post of GBSF was deleted, but I checked it and it's still there. Yelp does not delete reviews, much to Travis Allen's dismay, I'm sure. Travis HAS deleted my two churchfinder reviews, but he can't delete my yelp reviews.
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