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revcoltom

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I live in Birmingham Alabama and have been a street evangelist for over three decades. In the last few years I have seen a staggering level of compromise in the conservative circles of the Southern Baptist leadership and some independent conservative churches leadership as well.
The finger prints of Rick Warren /Peter Drucker and Bob Buford's "Leadership Network" are everywhere. The fast track into  the ecumenical/ interfaith abyss and the diluted social justice gospel required to comply with Federal "Faith Based Community / Neighborhood Partnerships" is beginning to become the mainstream of the "New Church Paradigm" Drucker scripted decades ago.

I have done some deep investigation and we should all be asking the hard question...(s)
Who is running our church (es) and where are they attempting the take evangelical Christianity ? Those who wear the most devout Conservative mask must certainly be the worst offenders if they are all double dealing to seduce True believers into the black-hole of this  "postmodern church". It looks as though espousing conservative Biblical "doctrine" may be the best place to hide the real demonic intentions and grasp- the hedge hog - "The Big Hairy Audacious Goal" which Jim Collins boast.

I have spent 18 months asking the hard questions of the leaders themselves.It isn't pretty.
watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #2 
Revcoltom,

Who is running our church (es)?  This is a most important question for our time.  And this leads me to a few more questions.

Are churches being led by men filled with the Holy Spirit?  Or are they being led by men driven by purpose?  Are the churches following God's Word?  Or are they following a man-made organizational model (Druckerism, Leadership Network)?  Are the churches holy, peculiar, sanctified, and set apart from the world?  Or are the churches forming partnerships with the world (Communitarianism)?  Are the churches boldly proclaiming the gospel of Light to a world in darkness?  Or are they busy building relationships with the world and finding common ground with the world (ecumenism)?  Are the churches preaching the pure Gospel of grace that saves?  Or are the churches engaged in a works-based social gospel?  Are the churches waiting patiently for their Blessed Hope to take them out of this world?  Or are the churches busy building a "kingdom of Christ" now and before the Lord Jesus Christ returns (dominionism)? 

You state, "Those who wear the most devout Conservative mask must certainly be the worst offenders."  I would agree.  Conspirators often hide behind a mask which represents the opposite of what their organization is actually doing.  For instance, you mention the Southern Baptist leaders who put forth a conservative front.  But too few Christians know that the Southern Baptist Convention, as a non-governmental organization of the United Nations with Special Consultative Status, is fully on board with the UN's globalist, antichrist agenda.  How can these leaders be conservative when their organization is dedicated to the UN's agenda?  How can these Southern Baptist leaders possibly be sincere in their opposition to abortion, when the UN is dedicated to a depopulation agenda which includes abortion?

All Christians should indeed pray for discernment in order to find out who and what is running their churches. 



revcoltom

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I could not agree more. Many Biblical conservatives have trusted the voices of "conservative Champions" who are publicly  saying what they want to hear but privately engage  just the opposite in promoting very godless agendas. Southern Baptist leadership is in partnership with FEMA for one, and with County Health Departments around the nation for another as they utilize their membership to provide manpower and donor base to fund what began as the Clinton era Welfare Reform, which Peter Drucker was a part of scripting . According to the Drucker Rhetoric for Churches and non profits we are to help "save Society" and that was the original title of Bob Buford book "Drucker and Me" which came out in April 2014. After 30 years of Leadership Network's activities Mr. Buford wanted the world to know of his influence with the socialist Drucker legacy on the evangelical Church. One interesting quote in the book by Buford of Drucker is "every individual exist as an organ of society and for the good of society, business (free enterprise ) is the same , it can only be allowed to exist in that it is good for and serving society." Sound  more like Karl Marx than the United States? Certainly not a Biblical perspective.
Drucker rewrites the great commission for Jesus and says we, " the church are to just mind the care of souls...be pastoral . Conviction and Doctrine does not matter."

A book review and photo of the 1986 Leadership Network Class  can be seen at this link
http://leadnet.org/bob-bufords-new-book-drucker-me/ 

One Atlanta mega church pastor Randy Pope who was in the 1986 class of Leadership Network is quoted in "Drucker and Me" as  having designed his ministry, evangelism and discipleship around Alcoholic Anonymous at Drucker's suggestion. AA is the complete opposite of II Corinthians 5:17" If any man be in Christ he is a NEW Creature ..."  Pope in a recent interview with Buford calls Buford "THE most  influential person in evangelical Christianity in the past 30 years".

As for the UN I lived about 4 blocks from the UN during part of the 10 years I ministered in NYC. It could not be farther from Christian faith nor even Human Rights and is obsessed with overpopulation,forced abortion, and sterilization and promoting homosexuality as a means to lowering birth rates and achieve the Mathusian dreams of the Rockefeller family . FYI the Rockefeller $ bailed out the SBC's most notable "conservative " Seminary years ago. SBC leaders are rushing  to comply and sell out Biblical standards on  homosexuality and abortion exchanging conviction for the "living (or Compassionate) Conservatism espoused by Peter Drucker from 19th century Austria. Leadership who would sell out Biblical righteousness have another loyalty greater than the purity of the Gospel. The best that can be said is they are fearful and pragmatic. The worst is that some, perhaps many are wolves in sheep's clothing .If their loyalty is elsewhere isn't it a fair question to ask towhat and to whom their loyalties belong if not to the LORD and His righteousness?

watch-pray

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The Southern Baptist Convention is a front for Freemasonry. According to the SBC's own statistics, in 1991 over one million Freemasons were members of the SBC and, in 2000, over 1,000 SBC pastors were Masons:

"U.S. membership [in the Masons] is claimed at about three million, with about five million worldwide... The official magazine of Masonry in the U.S. is titled New Age.  Some church denominations are also led by avowed Masons. For example, a 1991 survey by the Southern Baptist Convention Sunday School Board found that 14% of SBC pastors and 18% of SBC deacon board chairs are Masons. It is also estimated that SBC members comprise 37% of total U.S. lodge membership. (A 2000 updated SBC report found that over 1,000 SBC pastors are Masons.)"

http://rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Cults/masons.htm

In 1991, 37% of 3,000,000 would have been 1,110,000 Masons who held membership in the Southern Baptist Convention. How many Masons are in the SBC in 2015?  How many more Masons attend SBC churches but are not members?  (A Mason once told me that the lodges encourage their members to attend church.)

A list of famous Southern Baptist leaders who were Freemasons, such as B.H. Carroll, is enlightening:

http://www.adherents.com/largecom/fam_bap_freemasons.html

After the Masonic control of the SBC was exposed, the denomination formed other fronts with the same Masonic agenda. For many decades Freemasonry and the SBC have conducted a formidable concert of church takeovers.  Masons infiltrate churches of all denominations, rise to positions of power (elder, deacon, governing boards) and once in control they remove pastors who are not Masons or cannot be controlled. They tear churches apart with their despotic tactics and, after a church splits, their agents are waiting in the wings to offer the group which leaves a brand new church building if they will affiliate with the SBC.

The Masonic takeover of the Christian churches was planned long ago and was revealed nearly a century ago by Theosophist Alice Bailey:

"Very definitely may the assurance be given here that, prior to the coming of the Christ, adjustments will be made so that at the head of all great organizations will be found either a Master, or an initiate who has taken the third initiation. At the head of certain of the great occult groups, of the Freemasons of the world, and of the various great divisions of the church, and resident in many of the great nations will be found initiates or Masters.” (Initiation: Human & Solar, 1922, pp. 61-62)

The three main channels through which the preparation for the new age is going on might be regarded as the Church, the Masonic Fraternity and the educational field. All of them are as yet in relatively static condition, and all are as yet failing to meet the need and to respond to the inner pressure. But in all of these three movements, disciples of the Great Ones are to be found and they are steadily gathering momentum and will before long enter upon their designated task.” (“Religious Organizations in the New Age,” Externalisation of the Hierarchy, 1957)

In his New Age book, The Emerging Order, Jeremy Rifkin specifically identified the Evangelical Church as the primary instrument that would bring the New World Order to birth. So we need to soberly consider the fact that the Christian denominations have already been taken over and are currently controlled by Masters and initiates who are "transforming" their churches into the Great Harlot religious system that will transition mankind to a New World Order and One World Religion during the Tribulation period.
revcoltom

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Reply with quote  #5 

It is interesting to see what the  the 1992 -1993 Home Missions Board(now the North American Missions Board) Report of freemasonry in the SBC resulted in . I know some of the guys from the cult watch ministries who were investigating the facts, the numbers and beliefs of the Masonic Lodge and measuring it's compatibility with Biblical Christian Faith.
It was revealed that the HMB staffer in charge of the report was meeting with Grand Masters of several lodges and the report was tainted. He was forced to resign after rallying Freemasons to the Houston Convention Vote and the tainted report stood..As a result, though the report stated some parts of Freemasonry are NOT compatible with Christian faith, it stated that some ARE and commended the Good Works of the craft in society.It did NOT take a stand from the denomination leadership for or against it. The core belief in "The Priesthood of the Believer" was invoked to leave the decision of membership up to the individual believer. The report was buried after  the 1993 Houston convention vote.

Today it is clear from the changing face and focus of the SBC that the influence of Masonry in the SBC leadership has grown unhindered and much more in the open. The 1993 Masonic Journals celebrate the HMB report conclusion as  great victory/ affirmation /and door for expansion. How many young men truly called of God who enter the Seminaries and denominational training grounds come forth as "Change Agents" with their faith corrupted not only by doctrines of men but by this counter christian agenda?

I have engaged  SBC leadership on current trends of compromise over homosexuality and other "movements" in conservative Christian circles and the results are sad indeed.Someone from the top down has issued orders for a re-branding of the SBC to attract  younger "post-moderns" and intend to stop the loss of nickles and noses in the denomination. While Boasting thousands of "Church Plants" (mostly in Urban areas) each year the SBC is also losing 100,000 thousand people per year in a trend which one estimate says will bring the denomination numbers down to 1960 levels in just over a decade. No stats on the failure rate of those church plants is ever given but it is on par with  new start up restaurants .Most of the Church planting in the US and Europe is the product of the
Leadership Network and Bob Buford's influence and infused $$$ from Buford associates. http://www.glocal.net/2009/03/11/globalism-comes-to-my-doorstep-it-is-unavoidable-bob-burford/ 

Jmember

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So many former good churches are now so hyper-involved in everything but preaching the gospel they've become just one more confusing mess to add to the world. To say that things have changed in America is a real understatement, but when those negative changes are happening in the churches, things get pretty discouraging. So many churches and so-called 'pastors' are now competing for the money using modern technology. They're only interested in the popularity and the money it seems.

I left my Independent Baptist church last year because the pastor was the biggest busybody gossip I've ever seen. I would tell you what's gone on since I left but it would break your heart. The pastor is one of those old-timey good pastors that preaches God's doctrine, but he just couldn't quite walk his talk. And he couldn't let up for a day in begging for money. He's past retirement age and I think he's worried about how he'll survive if he has to give the church to a younger man. And people are still leaving that church, which is already very small. I just wonder if those other people even bothered to find another good church, they're so hard to find these days. As for myself, I think I'm done with 'church'. I'm tired. I'm weary. And I'm enjoying thoroughly studying the Bible all by myself and sharing it with my mostly telephone friends.

I quit liking the Southern Baptist Convention when they adopted Calvinism more publicly. They should know better.

The way things are in America and with our churches sickens me. But I take real great comfort in knowing that God's still watching and is still in control. He will save us! lol

Brokenbutstanding

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Reply with quote  #7 
When JG took over my dad's church I was told he said from the pulpit that he was their pastor,like a father,and no child must question what his father decides and orders.That is who runs that church.The pastor who has no calling,who earns $$ and lives in wealth while his congregation has no job.Shame.
watchmanwakes

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I recall twice calling the Grace Community Church "Pastor of the Day" to ask questions and being told "You are to obey out church leadership even when we are wrong."  Jesus commanded pastors not to lord over their congregations, but that whosoever wants to be great should become a servant...

Brokenbutstanding, who took over your dad's church with that attitude?  Someone from Macarthur's organization? 
couragehonor

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The masons infiltrating the church ! I wonder if that is,what happened at Walden Community Church in Walden /Montgomery Texas. It took 2 months people for Pastor Ken Ramey and remember I'm quoting him and I'm alleging this bases on what I heard in a sermon he did that he came in and moved the leadership from congregational rule to pastor /elder rule in the first 2 weeks of him getting there and then after 2 months the church files paperwork to sue him and some of the prominent men in the church for trying to take their building (church ) and after 2 months these men offer a hefty salary more than the initial salary for ken to pastor them and the 150 members they took out of the 200 members at walden community church!!!! Ken and these men never had to put time in ministry to build members he had the financial backing of a few men about 20, he stated and that next week 150 members waiting to tithe that 10% who by the way live in a rather large community on an extravagant golf course in walden tx, look up the area and the pictures. Pastor Ken lives in Walden in an upscale community for this area along with a lot of members. I remember when I was a kid my pastor working full time as a manager at Albertsons grocery store. He lived decent but never obtaining the salary The Masters Seminary graduates who leave pastoral positions at GCC after 3-4 years like ken. Look up lakeside bible church montgomery texas on fb and then look at its members they are all mostly made up of the model upscale families and believe me they act like it. They appear kind and mice and there are some that are wonderful but the clicks are unreal, like H.S. They all submit to husbands and leadership because these wives have it good Stay at home moms friends in the church they usually live near family or family moves here to be part of the church and they all praise ken constantly in grow group's " oh we are so blessed to have such a gifted pastor like ken" We are so thankful to have a humble pastor, and so on it's like okay , and it's weird! I know I'm on a rant and Im so for supporting pastors I have no issues with those who earn a good living. I do have a problem with the hyper calvinist church and the authoritarian rule the secrecy the covering of sin and abusing your members spiritually and ultimately building a JOHN MACARTHUR KINGDOM!!!! I finally found like minded men and women who are sick of it! Pastor Ken Ramey you and those with you are being exposed. I am from many years ago about 5 to be exact and now you have sunk your own ship!
bjw

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Reply with quote  #10 
It appears there are some similarities between the takeovers of both brokenbutstanding and couragehonor's churches.  It must be the pattern they are now following to simply takeover existing churches rather than build their own.  From the cult's perspective I can see how that would make more sense as it saves on building costs, as well as keeps the GCC/Master's empire in a way where they can still appear independent and "non-denominational" while appearing to the outside world as acting in an advisory position and not a cult.  It also makes sense that they put Tatlock in charge of this "Grace Advance"/TMAI program since he pretty much spearheaded the aggressive missionary efforts they did in the 90s.  I suppose this program was meant for this, and when you read brokenbutstanding and couragehonor's accounts you can tell just how sinister this plan is.

watchmanwakes

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Macarthur's empire has expanded greatly by taking over existing churches.  The Masters Academy International is a network of 15 or so seminaries that trains leaders to return to existing churches and Grace Advance is following the Leadership Network's model in training leaders to lead existing churches.  I would bet that very few of the Master's Seminary grads ever plant their own churches.

One of the threads at this forum describes how a church in Italy was taken over by TMAI.  Some of the Master's Seminary grads go on to James MacDonald's Harvest Chapel training center where they learn how to plant "Churches of Lifegroups."  I know about a church in North Carolina which was taken over by Kurt Gebhards (an elder at GCC) and Harvest Chapel with Macarthur's recommendation. 

This letter to the congregation in North Carolina was written while some were fighting this takeover.  "A Facilitator-led Church Group is the Gate to Hell: A Letter of Warning to Kurt Gebhards' Hickory Harvest Church, the Harvest Bible Chapel Affiliate in North Carolina: "A Church of Life Groups"   Kurt Gebhards had been the pastor of Macarthur's singles ministry called The Foundry which was run on Rick Warren's Purpose Driven model. 

Here is another article on the subject.   

The "Macarthurism" Cult's Rapid Reproduction Via Church Takeovers

Callie

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Reply with quote  #12 
I saw some of the articles on this website about MacArthur's cult. This is EXACTLY what happened in my ex-church:

"They would arrange to be appointed as head pastor and begin paying themselves a salary, even when the church had never needed to do so before. Before long the TMS graduate would have his friends as elders and the power base was completed." - The "Macarthurism" Cult's Rapid Reproduction Via Church Takeovers
watchmanwakes

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Reply with quote  #13 
Christianity in the USA is, I believe, largely controlled by Judeo-Freemasonry.  This would include the "Christian" colleges, seminaries, denominations, TV and radio.  It would also include orgs like the Drucker-Buford Leadership Network and the "Christian" ministries run by men like Graham, Rick Warren, and John Macarthur.
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